Thread: egg/moorcroft

i have received this cca for my Egg card thru moorcroft

i've been told it's unenforcable as it does not state a credit limit, but an approved limit. i am unsure as to what my next step should be. does antone have any advice please?

i suppose i just want to drag it out as long as possible. we have been paying Egg £4 a month (it's all we could afford) for over a year before they passed the debt to mooorcroft.
the banks & DCA's have made my life a misery for the last couple of years & some of the debts have been people fraudulently using my name & address. i want to make sure they have done everything they are required to do & i would also like to claim back as many charges as i can.

please help!!! have now received a letter from h.l.legal acting for capquest debt recovery. they say they are threatening me legal action if i don't pay the money by next week. we can't afford to pay otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess & now my wife has lost her job too. what should i do?

Notice its one of eggs unenforceable agreements.

have you sent the account in dispute letter to Egg and a copy to DCA.

CDS

There are lots of people challenging this exact agreement. Here is why:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-card-cca.html

For next steps, I suggest you send a dispute letter by special delivery asap, as they have to then suspend action and investigate it. I sent one here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1957368
Mine also includes elements about payment protection insurance - you will need to remove those if they aren't relevant.

Once you have got them off your immediate back you need to think about what you want to do - as steven asked, what do you want to achieve? Do you want to keep paying a few quid a month for ever more, or to stop paying entirely?

How much is the outstanding debt? Could it be almost entirely eliminated by reclaiming penalty charges?

How much have you paid in charges over the last 6 years? Egg are paying them all back plus 8% per year interest to people who complain enough times.

Have you been paying Card Repayment Protection? If so, did you buy this online or over the phone?

If you decide you agree that the agreement can't be enforced, do you have the courage and sheer bloody-mindedness to stand up to the debt collectors? (after all, their job is just to scare you into paying).

If you are taken to court, there will be people on here who can help you. If it comes to that, here is a really useful introduction to the process:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...er-credit.html

thank's for that, should i also send them an SAR at the same time?

Originally Posted by smiffy66

thank's for that, should i also send them an SAR at the same time?

It only costs £10 and can make very interesting reading.

However, you should remember that a SAR is only a request for information and will not in itself mean that any action against you is suspended. It just might give you more tools to defend yourself with in the future.

thanks for that, i have edited down militant's letter thus:-


Dear Sir

Account number xxxx - IN DISPUTE

I write with reference to the above account, which I now consider to be in dispute for the following two reasons.

1. Credit Agreement

You provided me with a copy of a “Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” for the above account, which you responded to on 6th January 2009.

This agreement is improperly executed under section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the associated regulations. According to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Schedule 1), this agreement should have been given the heading “Credit Card Agreement”. In fact it has been incorrectly headed “Credit Agreement”.

Additionally, no “Credit Limit” has been stated – this is a prescribed term set out in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, as required by section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As the agreement has been improperly executed, it is only enforceable by an order of the court, by virtue of section 65. However, since it does not explicitly state the term “credit limit” (rather, it mentions only an "Approved Limit”), as required by Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, the court would be prevented from granting such an order by virtue of section 127(3).


As I result I consider the entire account to be in dispute. Note that I will be formalising this complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service shortly.

Future conduct

Furthermore, please be aware that from this point onwards I will respond only to written contact. You are now under notice that I will not discuss personal or confidential matters over the phone under any circumstances whatsoever.

I trust you are aware of the limitations placed upon you now that the account has been formally disputed. I particularly draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a valid and enforceable credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:
• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.
• You must not pass this account to any third party.
• You must not issue a default notice on this account.
• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies. To register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute. I note that you are a subscriber to this Code.

Any further actions taken by Egg to collect the alleged debt whilst it is under dispute will be vigorously defended. I am also aware of the law regarding harassment of creditors under these circumstances and will use UK law to defend myself.

I look forward to receiving a satisfactory response.

Yours faithfully

does that look okay before i send it?

I would say fine, except that my "two reasons" were 1) missing the word "credit" and 2) payment protection insurance.

The fact that it is called a "Credit agreement" rather than a "Credit card agreement" does not make it unenforceable, just improperly executed. I just included this line of argument for extra collateral ammunition.

What I am saying is you only have "one reason" not "two reasons".

If you want a second reason I suggest you look at this new thread started by PT:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ents-what.html
This includes points about interest rates for cash withdrawls and the fact that default charges are not detailed.

I was not aware of these issues when I wrote my letter. (but I am now )

i think i'm getting out of my depth here, i've read the other thread but i'm not confident enough to transfer them into a letter. is there anyone who could help here??

I think the 1st letter you wrote is absolutely fine - just change "two reasons" to "one reason". You can always use the other arguments later.

If what PT is saying is correct (and he is saying that he has defeated Egg 5 times over this in his professional life) then just the "approved limit" vs "credit limit" arguments are enough to render the alleged debt unenforceable.

I assume you have already been defaulted on this account. In which case the worst they can do (other than harrassment) is take you to court, which they probably won't do if they know they can't win.

Try sending your letter to the current debt collector. They will probably send the account back to Egg. Then Egg will probably sit and wonder what to do next, like they other on all the other accounts where people are challenging them for this reason.

thanks for that, letter is on it's way

just subbing, I'll be going down the same path along with a few others on here.

received a letter end of march from Egg whose customer service advisors are carrying out an investigation which could take up to 8 weeks.
i have just had this from capquest

it mentions a letter sent 8/04/09 which i haven't received, but this is also dated 8/04/09. what should i do? do i just ignore capquest & wait for egg to reply?

Does this mean that Moorcroft have given up and so Egg have passed your account onto Capquest instead?

They shouldn't be passing an account around at all if it is in dispute.

There is no harm in sending a copy of your previous letter to Capquest.

Ignoring letters and doing nothing is not always a good idea.

Having said that, the above really does look like a standard threat-o-gram letter designed to scare you. The solicitors letter they mention is a mystery - why would debt collectors still be chasing you if things were now in the hands of solicitors?

i got mixed up when i started the initial thread, moorcroft are chasing me for my morgan stanley card, but that's another story.
i have sent a letter to capquest with a copy of the letter from Egg & am also going to send a telephone harassment letter as they keep ringing up.
thanks for your support.

have received an update from Egg's investigation. they have so far been unable to reach a decision and are continuing their enquiries!!
as they have not reached a decision within 8 weeks i have a right to refer the complaint to the fos. should i just wait & see what they come up with when they finish their investigation? i have read on many threads that the fos tend to side with the credit card companies anyway.

Originally Posted by smiffy66

have received an update from Egg's investigation. they have so far been unable to reach a decision and are continuing their enquiries!!
as they have not reached a decision within 8 weeks i have a right to refer the complaint to the fos. should i just wait & see what they come up with when they finish their investigation? i have read on many threads that the fos tend to side with the credit card companies anyway.

Does this mean that Capquest have stopped hassling you and it's gone back to Egg?

To answer your question, again it depends what you are trying to achieve. In my friend's (Egg Card) case we have already been defaulted and so have now stopped paying and just complained to the FOS - though we did wait as long as possible:-
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...enges-egg.html

I think Egg's slow response is typical - we have just receive the same letter on our Egg loan account.