Thread: spouse v rbs and dca ***WON***

Help needed here.

About 6 years ago, while travelling in the USA, my other half had a £1000. o/d facilty with RBS. We monitored this online with digital banking.
My wife returned to the UK at the beginning of Feb 2004, and discovered several unopened letters from RBS.
One of these was a default notice issued as a result of not contacting them regarding our use of this facility.
A charge of £30 made for this letter.
Shortly after this with interest applied she went over by 19p Yes 19pence.
The bank were not interested in her explanation and set Unidebt on the case.
She had been paying the o/d regularly until last Jan 08 when Unidebt made her an offer she could refuse. At that point £570 pounds paid. We challenged them to provide statements showing payments made and interest charged.
Nothing happened until last week, when she received a letter from another DCA demanding over £1400. A bit of a steep cost of 19p over the agreed limit.
We had not challenged the charge as it was such a small amount. Intrum Justitia are now on the case using there abnoxious tactics and attitude
Any thoughts would be appreciated on what to do?

All of the charges placed on the account you can reclaim. Do you have statements for the period that charges were applied?

I would also add that a DCA can not apply ANY collection costs to the account.

I would initially send IJ the following via recorded delivery:

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your ref:


Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.


I am disputing the total value of these debts with **BANK** due to unlawful and unreasonable charges. As such, therefore, I consider this account to be in dispute and no further action or payment shall be made until this matter is resolved.
As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

This process may take some time, due to the Office of Fair Trading's test case, but I will try to expedite this issue as a matter of urgency.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Hi Rory thanks for your input.
At this point in time, we have received no statements showing any charges lawful or otherwise. IJ did make a point on their letter that they have had to engage tracing agents as we had moved house. This despite the fact that Unidebt were able to talk to us in our new location in Jan 2008.
She has repaid £570 up to Jan 2008 at which point we issued the verbal challenge to Unidebt regarding charges and interest. We were told that these charges and interest were in line with the agreement we had signed. She did not sign anything and we asked for all that documentation relating to this agreement along with charges and rates of interest.
Nothing heard as we forgot to chase it until IJ got on the case last week.
Ironically, if she had kept to the time schedule they would have received only £520 as at Jan 2009.
Am I being illogical or getting taken for a wee hurle?
Do I have to challenge RBS directly or wait til IJ reply?

You'll need to contact RBS directly to request that the charges and interest are refunded. They won't refund them and will just quote the test case that is being conducted in England. However you need to go through this process before you can lodge a claim at court.

I would suggest you have a read of the FAQ's here and the Letter Templates here then get your claim posted off to the bank.

Thanks Rory,
No sleep tonight again.

Hi folks,
Just to give an update.
Sent letter to IJ as suggested by Rory and recorded delivery.
Also sent RBS Telford a letter asking for justification of the debt as suggested. She indicated that this had already been requested about one year ago and no reply.
She also included a £10 postal order and a formal request under the DPA for all info relating to this account.
Lets wait and see!
Incidentally, the numbers paid to RBS in my first cry for help were incorrect. She had in fact paid £640.
This makes the demand for £1400~ even more outrageous and increased her determination to meet them head-on.
Much has been said about the CCA and whether it applies here, but is it not the case that where credit is extended by afinancial institution, then the CCA does apply?

Overdrafts have part V (form and content) exemption from the Act. So the agreement would simply be a letter from the bank stating the amount of the overdraft, the APR, etc.

She has no copy of a letter showing the limit or the APR.
I suppose we will have to wait and see what the postman turns up with

Below is the determination regarding overdraft exemption.

The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:
"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by Sections 74(3) and (3A) and 133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.


2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-


(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;
(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:
- of the credit limit, if any,
- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,
of the procedure for terminating the agreement;
and this information shall be confirmed in writing.
(c) that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.
3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

Lightly?
Explain please

I would also add that she is not denying that a debt exists, but do not expect to be reamed in the process

Ouch!

If you dont mind I wont tell the wife

Update!
I have received three letters from RBOS, two of which deal with the complaint made against the Bank which led to our current situation, and one from the DSAR dept.
The complaint letter is fairly standard stuff, I think and will no doubt eventually make out that the bank acted correctly and that I am the bad guy?
The DSAR I sent was unsigned and thay have indicated that they cannot proceed without a signature. They have offered me copy statements showing interest and charges if that would suffice? In which case my tenner would be returned.
I do not think this is what I should be satisfied with as the current situation is of their making, and would like to be able to refer to all correspondance, verbal or otherwise with RBOS and the DCA's?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?

UPDATE on UPDATE.

Hi everyone. Just received another letter from the complaints people at RBoS and contrary to my earlier thoughts, I am delighted to announce that the bank wish to bring this matter to a close. By this they mean that all payments made thus far will be deemed to have satisfied the outstanding debt.
IE NOTHING MORE TO PAY.

Many thanks to all who have offered advice and guidance, especially Rory32.

Well done. It just goes to show what happens when you challenge the beggars (substitute an alternative word if you so wish).