Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
On asking for amex to produce a valid cca on behalf of my wife for an account opened in Dec2005 they have replied with a copy of the original application and terms and conditions. the response is as follows:
"Please find enclosed a copy of your original application and terms and conditions for the above account. These documents form the executed agreement between you and American Express. Please see the statements we have sent you previouslt to validate the debt held." signed by credit relations.
the documents appear to be an application form and a part2- CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974. with the signature box. the debt is for around £10k
I guess putting a copy up would be useful, so if anyone has any clues as to how to get a decent size copy on here id be grateful, previous scanned efforts have yielded unreadable results im afraid.
many thanks
Here are the results of my attempt at getting the documents up here. If they are too small can someone please let me know how i can get them larger? Any thoughts appreciated viz a vis the enforcability of these docs.
I regret the alleged Agreement looks like a nasty one, and similar to one where a Cagger lost in Court over it.
The problem is it is a 2-sided thing, and has your details on one side, and then your signature right slap bang in the middle of what looks like the Prescribed Terms on the other side.
I think Amex were by then starting to get their act together.
The only issue could be if they don't have an original copy, as they should.
IOW, without the original, you can't tell for sure if that is the actual Application Form/Agreement you signed. Sadly, a Judge may well go on the balance of probabilities and may enforce even though Amex should really have the original alleged Agreement if they want to Enforce it in Court.
A copy is Hearsay Evidence, and to produce that in Court, they should follow the CEA-1995 to validate the Copy as being genuine.
Amex do not seem to be very good at that, but I regret this will be a rear-guard action you'd be fighting.
In the right Court with the right Judge, it's possible the copy will not be accepted. But it's more likely you'd get a less sympathetic Judge who will side with Amex and Enforce it, even without the original Agreement.
Sorry this is not better news. However, this is just my opinion, and others may spot something I've missed.
Right, all is not yet lost. First, see if you have any unlawful charges you can reclaim, and have that Claim ready either as a full Claim, or as a Counter-Claim should Amex take action against you.
Next, have they issued a Default Notice yet? They must do that if they want to Terminate the alleged Account. If they make a mess of that (as they are quite fond of doing), then they could seriously reduce anything they can claim from you.
Have they Terminated? Amex tend to do that very quickly after the expiry of any Default Notice they issued.
If they have not issued a Default Notice and/or have not Terminated, then watch them from now on like a Hawk, and see what they do. Keep all Envelopes of any letters they send you, because they can help to pin-point the Date of Service for anything important. It's not the Letter Date that is important, it's the Date they send something to you, because that can determine the Legal Date of Service for a key document.
There are set timescales for Court Documents (2nd Business Day after Posting) and others for Routine Letters (+2 Working Days if 1st Class Post, and +4 Working Days for 2nd Class Post). So knowing when they sent something, or knowing what Class of Post they used, can be quite important.
Good luck with it, if you need any more help, just shout and I'm sure someone will be around to help.
IMO, if this is front and back them I would say enforceable. It has the prescribed terms.
ida x
Cag is a free self-help site. If you are contacted by any other user recommending or offering no win no fee or paid for service, please report this to the site or to a site team member.
CAG depends on donations. Please consider making a donation - however big or small.
latest from Amex...have sent them SAR not too long ago...do we try and delay this action by saying we re awaiting the SAR docs and cant judge a correct amount until then? should we contact the solicitors in any way as it seems they have a decent CA? any thoughts welcome...
Dear Sir/Madam,
I refer to your letter of **/**/** , in which you advise of your intention to issue court proceedings with regard to the outstanding balance of my Amex account.
As you are aware, this account and the balance thereof is currently subject of a dispute. I can only assume your letter has been sent in error, as you must surely be aware that action such as that you propose would constitute breaches of the Banking Code. This matter has been discussed in correspondence with your clients ******** department and on **/**/** I received a letter from ******** , which acknowledged no such action should be taken on a disputed account and did in fact apologise for previously suggesting otherwise. A copy of the correspondence to which I refer is enclosed for your reference.
Additionally, this action you propose is clearly quantifiable as retaliatory due to my own claim against your client to recover unlawfully levied penalty charges. I also believe this action to be tantamount to a sanction imposed merely for pursuing my legitimate right of seeking a judgement from a court.
I will allow you 7 days to reply to me, in writing or by Fax only, withdrawing the threat of action imposed in your letter of **/**/**. .
I look forward to your prompt response
Ida x
Cag is a free self-help site. If you are contacted by any other user recommending or offering no win no fee or paid for service, please report this to the site or to a site team member.
CAG depends on donations. Please consider making a donation - however big or small.
Ida thanks very much for your time.... as the CCA looks to be enforceable and im waiting on the SAR i presume i can only dispute the amount of the claim, is that right? the account isnt technically in dispute (they provided CCA), or does this fact (waiting for SAR) make it so? im a bit confused here as this is for my wife and i dont want to cock it up, for want of a better phrase.
another issue, can they use the assets of a married couple for debt recovery? almost everything is in my name (makin little dif anyway as i have plenty of debts to sort out) and my wife has no income save for child benefit. im thinking ahead here as i think we are going to have to find a way to pay these.
really appreciate your help..
so presumably any charges on the account will not cover the balance?
if not then you need to make a payment arrangement with them. make up your owna icome and exp sheet and send along with what you say you can afford each month. include a payment with this and then just pay what you have propsed on time.
Cag is a free self-help site. If you are contacted by any other user recommending or offering no win no fee or paid for service, please report this to the site or to a site team member.
CAG depends on donations. Please consider making a donation - however big or small.
thanks ida that makes sense...my worry is that any offer is going to be completely insufficient from their side. where do we stand then? do we take the household income/expediture figures for this purpose or just my wifes which as i said is just child benefits?
Just remeber if it went to court a judge would only make you pay back what you can afford
if you send the payment along with the letter and they send you aletter back saying pay more, don't worry, just keep paying what you can afford and on time. Judges take a very dim view when companies that do this.
Ida x
Cag is a free self-help site. If you are contacted by any other user recommending or offering no win no fee or paid for service, please report this to the site or to a site team member.
CAG depends on donations. Please consider making a donation - however big or small.
hi all. my wife has received a Stat Demand from Amex ive posted on the general debt section (see link) but not getting much response to this. im unsure of the ground here as nothing ive read seems to fit the bill... any help really appreciated.. apologies if this counts as double thread... amex is credit application and t&c s enforcable? - The Consumer Forums
amex Stat Demand, what to do ?
. the response is as follows:
Reply With Quote
