Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default complaint against Newlyn Directors

    I have just lodged a complaint in Northampton county courticon through the Form 4 procedure against the bailiff director for Newlyn PLC.

    I have been receiving letters demanding payment for three pcnicon's, all signed for by the director himself. On each occasion the fees are rising, from £168 to £330+ to £560+. When phoning the company, they state the fees are for visits, van fees, levying distress etc.

    I work from home, where the letters are addressed to, and have not been visited on the dates and times Newlyn claim to have attended.

    I have formally requested the names of the attending bailiff, but this has been refused and Newlyn will only state that it was an 'area bailiff'.

    Therefore I have complained against the director, as he is responsible for his workers actions, and he also happens to sign the letters demanding the money personally. These letters are all sent first class post from their northampton offices.

    My complaint will be posted on here in full shortly.

    The form was sent to teh court last week, what I was wondering was is there anyone else who has blatantly been defrauded or tried to be defrauded by Newlyn? I am looking to prepare a case file of examples of where Newlyn exaggerate their fees and then try to obtain these from unwitting debtors.

    My view is very much along the lines that for however many people kick up a fuss and get the fees back, there must be many more who don't and just pay over the full amount demanded. I want to ultimately have the certificate of the director revoked because he is either unable to control his workforce and stop them from issuing fraudulant demands for money (in which case he is negligent in his job) or he actively assists and approves in ramping up bailiff charges and he himself is breaking the criminal law.

    I am looking for examples which I can quote and refer at the hearing, which will be in the next couple of months.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    when did they say they visited check post mark on envelope to see when posted
    I once had a baliff say he visited on the 12 and letter was posted on 6th
    was a great laff when i sent it to the courts

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Yes I've kept all the letters and envelopes, what has been really frustrating is the fact that Newlyn won't disclose the name of the person who actually visited - presumably because no one did.

    Has anyone got any experience of taking Newlyn to court over phantom visits and having fees refunded for non-existant visits etc?


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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    If the bailiff has levied upon a vehicle for the collection of outstanding pcnicon's then the Warrant of Execution states upon it that "If your goods are seized you will be left a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory together with a copy of this Warrant"

    Next, if a bailiff collecting a road traffic debt is not certificated then he will be committing an offense of trespass. It is vital that you request a copy of the screen shot of your account asap. If the company object then they have something to hide. You may wish to remind them that the Information Commissioners Officer (ICOicon) have confirmed that you are entitled to receive this.

    Finally there has recently been a very important ruling that states that a bailiff cannot charge a clamp fee !!


  5. #5
    gbi gbi is offline
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    I have just had exactly the same, they wrote to me on 6th Jan claiming claiming £420.09 for 3 apparent visits to clamp my vehicle. I work from home everyday and the car is for most of that time, I did not receive any paperwork from them or a knock on the door. I phoned them upon receipt of the letter to challenge and they insisted that I put this in writing. I did this and have not had a response.

    Last night they came and clamped my car demanding the total of £548.09, I managed to convince the bailiff to release the clamp if I paid him £200 then and the balance today, he agreed!

    First thing this morning I submitted an Out of Time declaration at Northampton, I advise the bailiff of this and within 10 minutes he had clamped my car again.

    Following a furious conversation with my local council the bailiff has just returned to release the clamp and my council have insisted that Newlyn refund my money immediately, I am currently holding on Newlyn's Helpline to find out when I get my Cheque!

    I would be very interested in joining any class action as their behviour through all of this has been disgusting.

    On a lighter note their bailiff turned up in a convertible Porsche last night!!


  6. #6
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Hello GBI

    Newlyn are terrible at inflating their fees. Its good that you got the Stat-Dec lodged, because as soon as that is received by the TEC then the warrant is automatically suspended. The bailiff returning to clamp your car is grounds for you to complain against him personally using the Form 4 procedure, as he has levied illegally (ie. without the power of a warrant behind him).

    My hearing against the directors of Newlyn is currently at Northampton county courticon at the listings department, waiting for a hearing date to be arranged. I'm guessing with the current backlog the hearing will be in around 3-5 weeks. If you want to send me more details by PM we can go through the complaint form together, and if you wish, you can come with me to me hearing and have your complaint heard at the same time.

    The problem is there are many good, law-abiding bailiffs out there, and being a user of county court bailiffs and high court enforcement officers to collect trade debts owed to me, they generally do a good job. However there are lots of bad private bailiffs working for firms such as Newlyn, and unless people actually start writing to and attending court to complain and attempting to have certificates revoked, the problem will not improve. I don't want rid of bailiffs per se, just the bad core.

    If anyone has a genuine complaint against the behaviour of a bailiff - be it the way they acted or the inflation of their fees or claimed number of attendences etc - I strongly urge you to complain to the court. It doesn't cost anything apart from the price of the stamp, and as long as your complaint is real there is no risk of you paying the bailiffs legal fees (The legislation -Distress for rent rules - makes no mention of who's liable to pay the bailiffs legal fees should he choose representation, and indeed the process is supposed to be carried out by the complainant and the bailiff themselves without the need for solicitors to become involved. I would assume however that should you make a false complaint the judge could order you to pay costs. That said, it wont actually cost you anything to go to court as there is no court fee, and all you need to do in the first instance is fill in a simple complaint form, and then attend the hearing and answer questions.)

    Anyone considering lodging a complaint - please don't hesitate to post on this thread or PM me!

    Regards


  7. #7
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Hi RC,

    I am not sure it was the bailiff's fault yesterday, he seemed like a nice guy and was genuinely embarassed about the situation. He was continuously bombarded by calls from his office while the events unfolded and admitted to me he was new to the job and was not happy with what was being done!!

    I will PM you the full details of the story so far and would happily join your campaign and also promote to other people who have suffered the same.

    My main issues of complaint were the fact that Newlyn had charged me for 3 visits I know they did not make and then their blatant attempt to extract cash from me after I had advised them verbally and in writing that I had submitted the OTT forms to Northampton TEC.

    They need to be stopped!

    Regards
    GBI


  8. #8
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Hello again GBI

    Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

    It's disgusting what you have experienced. I'm not suprised the bailiff was apologetic and sorry when he saw you - he knew he was in wrong both morally and legally! Even if it is his new job he would have been trained and should have a decent moral compass in any case.

    My complaint is still proceeding and I should shortly have a hearing date. Newlyn have filed a statement denying the claims, ie. that they have attended etc but they haven't provided any evidence, such as statements from the individual bailiffs or GPS tracking etc. I would have guessed they could have killed the complaint dead immediately if they have any of this evidence, which of course they don't.

    I'm going to PM you later on today with more details.

    Is there anyone else in the forums with direct experience of Newlyn and being overcharged by phantom visits or fees? Please reply to this post, as it all adds weight to the argument that Newlyn are acting illegally and fraudulantly.


    Rental Company


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder Mal64 Novitiate

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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    I'm currently battling with Newlyns over a council tax debt. They left a Notice of Distress in lobby of my block out of its envelope. Their charges were for approc £180, so I called them asking for a breakdown of this charge. They said I had to ask in writing which I did, also enclosing a cheque for the outstanding Council Tax plus court costs. They sent a two line letter acknowledging receipt of my letter. By the way their letter was actually dated the 2nd February yet they only contacted me for the very first time on the 25th February.

    The cheque has gone through my bank but today I came home to find a bailiff had left another Notice of Distress on the lobby door of my block. He'd attached this with an elastic band - again without an envelope. Now they want £350 and have levied a charge on a car which doesn't even belong to me. In fact I don't even know who it belongs to. Amazing huh? I've drafted another letter to be sent tomorrow asking how they calculate these fees as no walking possession had been made. I'd never heard from them until the first notice was thrown into the common parts of my block.

    Having read this forum I intend to complete a Form 4, once I manage to get the bailiffs name as it's unreadable on the paperwork, plus I will be sending a copy of the letter to my local council. For a start under the Data Protection Act I thought it was illegal for these people to leave open correspondence for me in public view.



  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder FairPlay77 Novitiate

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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal64 View Post
    I'm currently battling with Newlyns over a council tax debt. They left a Notice of Distress in lobby of my block out of its envelope. Their charges were for approc £180, so I called them asking for a breakdown of this charge. They said I had to ask in writing which I did, also enclosing a cheque for the outstanding Council Tax plus court costs. They sent a two line letter acknowledging receipt of my letter. By the way their letter was actually dated the 2nd February yet they only contacted me for the very first time on the 25th February.

    The cheque has gone through my bank but today I came home to find a bailiff had left another Notice of Distress on the lobby door of my block. He'd attached this with an elastic band - again without an envelope. Now they want £350 and have levied a charge on a car which doesn't even belong to me. In fact I don't even know who it belongs to. Amazing huh? I've drafted another letter to be sent tomorrow asking how they calculate these fees as no walking possession had been made. I'd never heard from them until the first notice was thrown into the common parts of my block.

    Having read this forum I intend to complete a Form 4, once I manage to get the bailiffs name as it's unreadable on the paperwork, plus I will be sending a copy of the letter to my local council. For a start under the Data Protection Act I thought it was illegal for these people to leave open correspondence for me in public view.
    NORMALLY, as you have paid the outstanding council tax, and as the bailiffs appear to be trying cheat you by piling on illegal charges,I would say that you should treat them with the same measure of contempt as they have treated you and refuse to pay their fees. However, as you sent your payment to the bailiffs instead of to the council (that was a mistake!) I fear that the bailiffs will knock off their fees from the money they pass on to the council.

    As they have not been able to make a legal levy and there is no Walking Possession Order, they can only charge you £24.50 for their first visit plus £18 for their second - not a penny more.

    Send them £42.50 in Full and finalicon settlement of the debt and write them a stiff letter pointing out that they have deliberately tried to extort from you extra charges, that you will not tolerate this and that you are going to report them to the council. You should also complain about the sloppy way the bailiffs' note was left in the communal area of your block of flatswhere everyone could read it.

    If the bailiffs continue to harass you, just ignore them. As long as you have never let them into your home, and do not leave a door or window open through which they can come in, there is nothing they can do to you.


  11. #11
    Basic Account Holder Mal64 Novitiate

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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Quote Originally Posted by FairPlay77 View Post
    NORMALLY, as you have paid the outstanding council tax, and as the bailiffs appear to be trying cheat you by piling on illegal charges,I would say that you should treat them with the same measure of contempt as they have treated you and refuse to pay their fees. However, as you sent your payment to the bailiffs instead of to the council (that was a mistake!) I fear that the bailiffs will knock off their fees from the money they pass on to the council.

    As they have not been able to make a legal levy and there is no Walking Possession Order, they can only charge you £24.50 for their first visit plus £18 for their second - not a penny more.

    Send them £42.50 in Full and finalicon settlement of the debt and write them a stiff letter pointing out that they have deliberately tried to extort from you extra charges, that you will not tolerate this and that you are going to report them to the council. You should also complain about the sloppy way the bailiffs' note was left in the communal area of your block of flatswhere everyone could read it.

    If the bailiffs continue to harass you, just ignore them. As long as you have never let them into your home, and do not leave a door or window open through which they can come in, there is nothing they can do to you.
    Unfortunately I only found out after I sent the cheque they may use that towards their fees, so am contacting the council first thing in the morning. I've also been told that the amounts you state are the only ones I should be paying. I could kick myself for sending them anything at all.

    The made a levy on a car that is nothing to do with me or anyone in my home, but a debt counsellor did advise me not to leave my own car anywhere they can see it as they may remove that, so looks like I'll have to park a couple of streets away until this is resolved. They can't get in my house as it's on the first floor, but I'll make sure all my windows are shut just in case.

    Thanks for the advice Fairplay.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Unfortunately I only found out after I sent the cheque they may use that towards their fees, so am contacting the council first thing in the morning. I've also been told that the amounts you state are the only ones I should be paying. I could kick myself for sending them anything at all.
    You can lay the blame for not knowing this at the door of the users who insist onkeeping information secret, by excessive use of PMs.
    If the information is posted on the forums, then everybody can benefit from it.

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  13. #13
    CPS CPS is offline
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Hi all,

    I’m in a pretty similar position to many people here, you can read my story on the tread titled “bailiffs went to take my car this morning……”

    I also work from home, never had a visit from newlyns, never even received a letter till they showed up last Saturday morning and clamped my car and threatened to tow it unless I paid them £726 - £546 of this was their fees. This was the first time I became aware of them. So I had to pay them to stop my car been taken. I also informed the bailiff that I needed the car for work as I’m self employed, so can he still seize it?

    I’m in the process of writing up a letter to newlyns, looking for a breakdown of the £546 fees, I also am going to request evidence that they did sent me a letter, and that they made a prior visit.

    Can anyone give me advice what to include in it?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    MAL.

    This is serious because although the levy is against a car not owned by you, you would have been charged a "levy fee" and possibly also an "attending to remove" fee as well. The bailiff i allowed to assume that goods are yours and the onus of proof is on YOU to prove otherwise. This requires a Statutory Declaration to be signed.

    CPS.

    The fees CANNOT be right. Recently there has been an important court ruling that confirmed that a bailiff CANNOT charge to clamp a car !!

    You need to get a full and detailed breakdown of the fees and charges.


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder Mal64 Novitiate

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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Well it seems I'm near enough in the same position as Rental Company. I've just spoken to my council tax office and they say that Newlyn visited me on two previous occasions according to Newlyn's records, but I've never received any correspondence. They manage to leave two Notices of Distress in full view of the building, yet nothing prior to that.

    I tried to explain to the council tax officer that their charges are illegal as they can only charge for two visits, and I had already asked for a breakdown of charges, but all he said is their fees are correct. Even when I informed him I'd spoken to the National Debt Helpline he said their advice is wrong.



  16. #16
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Hello CPS

    Write the letter to Newlyns about the fees and include the following:
    1) Request times and dates that previous visits were made. Ask for the name of the bailiff, the court where he obtained his certificate, and any evidence that he actually visited. This could be a print out from his GPS tracker (some of the vans are fitted), a written statement from the bailiff, or any other corroberating evidence.
    2) Request the dates that the letters advising you of the debt were sent, and the addresses they were sent to.
    3) Request a copy of the screen printout of your account history - Newlyn keep a meticulous record of when things are done, when fees are added etc.
    4) Request a full breakdown of the fees, what they are for and for how much. The bailiff should have provided you with an itemised receipt at the time you paid - this should match what Newlyn provide

    Finally send the letter recorded delivery (get the signatureicon from Royal Mail). when they reply with a breakdown of the fees please post them on here so TT or other people in the know about fees can comment. Regards the phantom visits - if Newlyn fail to provide evidence that the bailiff visited, use this in your complaint.
    When you have all the information from Newlyn you can use it in the formal complaint.
    Finish the letter with something like 'I expect to receive a reply to this letter within the next fourteen days'. If you don't get a full response consider issuing a Subject access requesticon or just file a complaint at court stating that Newlyn are being obstructive.
    Please keep us up to date with developments.



    Hello Mal64
    Unlike parking tickets where bailiffs are enticed by commission to inflate their fees, council tax enforcement fees are very strictly set out. The only fees you are required to pay are visit fees - ie the £42.50 fairplay77 quoted - as the bailiffs have not gained access or levied on any of your possessions. I would write a letter stating this - copy the relevant wording from the law from the templatesicon bit of this excellent website - and enclose a final cheque of £42.50. Make clear this cheque is for Full and finalicon settlement of the matter, and that if Newlyn cash the cheque they accept this fact. I would also write on the reverse of the cheque your council tax reference number and that it is final settlement of all outstanding enforcement fees.
    Hopefully that will put an end to it. If it doesn't, I would strongly recommend complaining at the court against the individual bailiff and the bailiff firm, as you have a rock solid case (council tax fees are statutory and not open to interpretation, the bailiiff levied improperly on someone elses property, the bailiff company are trying to extort illegal and improper fees from you, the bailiff failed in his duty of care to you under the data protection act by leaving 'seizure notices' open to general view etc).

    Regarding the council employee, most council employees (with some notable exceptions obviously) are second rate and wouldn't survive long in the private sector. The ones I have come across in the parking sections of councils seem to take the attitude that parking offenders are criminals who should be punished, and the ones that challenge tickets are troublesome. I can't really stand the hypocrisy of the situation - people parking cars in town centres etc are usually going shopping or conducting business or spending money in one way or another - in shops, offices, bars - who all pay council tax and non domestic rates - which funds the councils in the first place! Anyway I digress.

    I strongly recommend anyone who has been affected by a bailiff to complain to the courts - it's easy, free, and will help remove the bad apples from the rest. Just like bank charges, if enough people complain someone high enough up in government or the civil service will take note and change will happen. Complain and share your experience on CAGicon

    rental company


  17. #17
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Quote Originally Posted by tomtubby View Post
    MAL.

    This is serious because although the levy is against a car not owned by you, you would have been charged a "levy fee" and possibly also an "attending to remove" fee as well. The bailiff i allowed to assume that goods are yours and the onus of proof is on YOU to prove otherwise. This requires a Statutory Declaration to be signed.
    The car not only doesn't belong to me I can't even recall seeing it in the road. It's not a vehicle belonging to someone who was even visiting so how can they charge a levy on a random car?

    Also can someone give me a link to the templateicon I need the Rental mentioned? Sorry I don't know where to look.



  18. #18
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Originally Posted by tomtubby
    MAL.

    This is serious because although the levy is against a car not owned by you, you would have been charged a "levy fee" and possibly also an "attending to remove" fee as well. The bailiff i allowed to assume that goods are yours and the onus of proof is on YOU to prove otherwise. This requires a Statutory Declaration to be signed.




    TT - surely the bailiff has to be reasonably certain that the goods do belong to the debtor - otherwise they could willy nilly put registration details down on paperwork? Although the ownership of vehicles can be ascertained easily enough with teh logbook, surely the bailiff has a duty of care to check ownership if he intends to remove it in the absense of the debtor by checking with the police or dvla computer?

    Please advise out of interesticon


  19. #19
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    TT - surely the bailiff has to be reasonably certain that the goods do belong to the debtor - otherwise they could willy nilly put registration details down on paperwork? Although the ownership of vehicles can be ascertained easily enough with teh logbook, surely the bailiff has a duty of care to check ownership if he intends to remove it in the absense of the debtor by checking with the police or dvla computer?

    Please advise out of interesticon[/QUOTE]

    This does come from a court of appeal legal case and you are RIGHT . The case does point out that the bailiff must have "reason to believe" that goods are yours and that if this is so, then yes he could levy upon the goods and the onus of proof is on you ...and NOT the bailiff to prove otherwise.

    HOWEVER...bailiffs have for a long time been abusing this legal point and we had had a case recently where the bailiff levied upon two cars in a small car park beside a house that has spaces for 10 vehicles !!!

    The most serious complaint however arose recently. Many people have sent copies of levies to us and I was SHOCKED to find the SAME VEHICLE REGISTRATION on 3 documents....for different areas of the country !!!! It is suspected that the reg number is probably the bailiffs own car !!!

    I would seriously sign a simple statutory declaration and insist that ALL fees are removed.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: complaint against Newlyn Directors

    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster-UK View Post
    You can lay the blame for not knowing this at the door of the users who insist onkeeping information secret, by excessive use of PMs.
    If the information is posted on the forums, then everybody can benefit from it.

    Regards, Rooster.
    Perhaps it would be an idea to place a new updated sticky at the top of the bailiff section for the revised bailiff fees for domestic and non domestic rates etc.



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