Thread: rrfcfan in court with WF All on again

Hi there,

I have recently asked WF to cancel PPI and refund ppi payments since taking out loan 14 months ago.

They have agreed to cancel the ppi immediately, however they will not refund the ppi payments I have made.

I know I have been mis-sold the ppi agreement as the sales person failed to mention whether I had any other insurance which would cover the loan, I could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan, The Terms & Conditions of the small print, cancellation rights, and whether I had any other insurance which would cover the loan.

The letter from WF also states the employee involved in selling the insurance takes great pride in ensuring the loan sales process followed is fully compliant with the FSA requirements.

I know this is not true, how is it possible to prove this? There is no recording of the sales pitch!

Any help will be greatly received .

OMG, Welcome have decided to take me to court regarding my overdue repayments.

There are a few options to take.

1) Admit the claim for the full amount (including the mis-sold PPI) and settle with the pursuer.
2) Admit the claim and make written application or attend the court to pay by installments.
3) Dispute the claim and attend at court to :-
Challenge the jurisdition of the court or the compentency of the action. Defender the action (whether as regards the sum claimed or otherwise) or state a counterclaim.

I would like to dispute it of course, as the amount the pursuer asks partially consists of mis-sold ppi.

I have a return day of this Thursday with my actions.

I cannot prove I mis-sold the policy, (even though I was never provided the policy documents). The sales person failed to mention whether

a) I had any other insurance which would cover the loan.
b) I could buy PPI elsewhere to cover the loan.
c) The Terms & Conditions of the small print and cancellation rights.

I need help! If I was to take option 1 or 2 then I will be conceding the full amount including the ppi payments.

subbing with interest

Hi HHNF,

I had problems paying welcome as I was having bank charges swallowing up my hard earned cash. I did make Welcome aware.

Yes I have done a S.A.R and have received all paperwork.

I need to acknowledge by Thursday 22nd January as this is the return date. The hearing at the sheriff court is on 29th January (which also happens to be my hearing date with RBS for bank charges.)

This came as quite a shock, the Summons was hand delivered (no postage marks or stamps).

I have not pm'ed a Mod yet.

Any mods out there that can help with this matter.

I can afford to pay £20 a week back to Welcome however will this mean I cannot challenge the PPI payments at a later stage?

hi rrfcfan

to begin with

defend all the claim
that will allow two weeks to get the defence in

i have a few questions for this lot, it will put them on the back foot
you need to do a cpr request
ill talk you through it to get this info

DONT GIVE UP

DEFEND

So I have to fill in a proposed defence / counterclaim on the attached sheet.

I have to state which facts in the statement of claim are admitted.

State briefly any facts regarding the circumstances of the claim on which you rely

State details of counterclaim, if any.

I have already sent a SAR and they have complied by sending all account info. So I need to send a CPR . I have read about this request somewhere before on these forums. What will this do?

As this court summons has been raised in a Sheriff Court, do I still have 2 weeks to defend the claim after the return day?

If postggj can help in any way, I am all ears ?

So I need to send a CPR .

No because you are in Scotland not England. We don't have Civil Procedure rules in Scotland. The rules you will adhere to depend on the type of claim e.g. small claims, summary cause or ordinary cause.

Is it a small claim, summary cause or ordinary cause?

What are the details of claim?

Hi Rory,

It is a summary cause.

Details of claim .

1. The parties are as designed in the instance. The Defender has been so resident for a period in excess of 3 months preceding the raising of this action. The Defender is domiciled there. The Court accordingly has jurisdiction. There are no proceedings in respect of the present matter, between the parties hereto, pending any other court. There is no agreement between the parties hereto propogating jurisdiction in respect of the present matter to another court.

2. The Defender entered into a finance Agreement with the Pursuer (hereinafter reffered to as 'the agreement').

3. In terms of the agreement, the Defender undertook to pay the pursuer monthly payments. The defender failed to maintain said payments and on or about 7th October 2008, the Defender was in arrears. On or about said date, the Pursuer issued the Defender with a Default notice. The Defender failed to make said payments. As a result of the Defender failing in that obligation the Pursuer in accordance with the T & Cs has terminated the agreement.

4. The agreement specifies, in the event of termination, the calculation to be carried out to determine what sums are payable by the Defender to the Pursuer. The Sum due under the agreement totals £3xxx.xx, which is the sum sued for.

5. Despite repeated requests of the Defender by the Pursuer, The Defender has refused or failed to make payment and accordingly this action is necessary.

I hope this helps.

So this is what I have to do ?

I wish to Dispute the amount , do I complete Form 1a by selecting 'I wish to dispute the amount due only ' and complete Written note of proposed defence / counter claim on the next page ?

( This is where I am a little stuck !!)

What exactly do I put in boxes ??

I have to state which facts in the statement of claim are admitted.
State briefly any facts regarding the circumstances of the claim on which you rely
State details of counterclaim, if any. ??

Also send in incidental application to request all paperwork for loan and PPI (S.A.R ??).

This allows a further 2 weeks to enter a defence.

Is this correct?

Well, after staying up until 4.30 yesterday morning, I have completed Form 1a with my intentions. I am going to dispute the amount Welcome are asking for as the amount includes PPI.

I will send an incidental application to sist hearing until I have received all paperwork regarding the loan and ppi.

Any body else here suffered the same fate?

I have a existing thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk...pi-refund.html

I think I have well and truly balls it up.

I am due in a Sheriff Court with Welcome Finance as they wish to claim back the remainder of the loan as I have defaulted, (Bank charges made it difficult to repay)

I have responded to the claim, by disputing the amount owed as the amount claimed by Welcome includes mis-sold PPI.

Now I wish to sist the claim until the pursuer can disclose all relevant paperwork regarding the loan and ppi.

I know I was mis-sold the policy ( in fact I have had many loans in the past with Welcome each time I was mis-sold the policy)

It is very difficult to produce evidence that I was mis-sold however I have never received a Payment Protection Policy.

How do I go about requesting all the paperwork regarding the loan? Will an incidental application to request all the paperwork mean I do not have to request a S.A.R ? Will the courts suspend the case until the documents are produced ?
Am I right in saying that the agreement in unforceable if the ppi payments were added to the beginning of the loan thus accruing interest?

I could really do with some help. I have somewhere seen on this site about Incidental applications but I am at my wits end. I am due in court on Thursday. I have been experiencing problems with my user ID hence a new one has been created.

Many thanks for all your help so far ! Keep up the good work !

Sorry for not getting back to you on that thread.

The procedure for making an incidental application is quite straightforward but, if you do run into difficulties, the sheriff clerk will be able to offer guidance.

INCIDENTAL APPLICATION

Sheriff Court:

Summary Cause Summons Number:

Date of Next Hearing:

(Their name) Pursuer against (your name) Defender
(address) (address)

The defender requests the court to postpone the hearing fixed for xxxx 2009 and that the case is temporarily sisted.

The defender also seeks an order for the recovery of documents from the pursuer in relation to the claim made against the defender. These documents are vital to the defender in order to compile a full defence. The documents requested to be recovered are listed below:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.
2. All records the pursuers hold on the defender relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by the pursuers, or by any previous creditor
b. Where there has been any event in the defenders account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, the defender requires disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.
c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that the pursuersor the original creditor sent the defender, with a copy of any proof of postage that the pursuers hold.
d.Documents relating to any payment protection insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).
e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial Breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.
f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.
g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of the defenders data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998
h. A list of third party agencies to whom the pursuers have disclosed the defenders personal data and a summary of the nature of the information the pursuers have disclosed.
i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents the pursuers seek to rely on in court.


Signed:
Defender:
Dated:

The incidental application should be taken or sent to the sheriff clerk.

The sheriff clerk will then fix a date for parties to be heard on the application. If the person making the application is a private individual or sole trader, and not represented by a solicitor, the sheriff clerk will send a copy of the application to the other party.

At least two days’ notice of the date fixed for the hearing of the application must be given to the other party. If the party receiving the application then tells the court they are not opposing it, the application will not have to call in court. The sheriff will decide the matter on the day set down for the hearing, and no attendance by the parties will be required.

If the party receiving the application intends to oppose it, (or fails to tell the court that they do not intend to oppose it) the case will call in court. The sheriff will hear those parties who attend on the application and decide the matter. Therefore it is essential that the party making the application appears or is represented at court on the date fixed to hear it.

If the party against whom the application is made does not appear, the court may grant the application in their absence.

Thank you so much Rory !

Excellent work. Incidental application handed in.

In court tomorrow, I will keep you all posted !

I was really nervous in court today. I had already been up with the sheriif just 2 hearings earlier with my claim of bank charges against RBS. I will leave a seperate post for this at rrfcfan v rbos thread in the Scotland forum .

I had sent in the incidental application laid out and kindly provided by rory32 just yesterday.

When I was called in front of the Sheriff I failed to see an Irwins representative . The Sheriff called the Solicitor and there was indeed no rep.

The Sheriff, suprised by this after all it was the first calling date, dimissed the case.

WOW, absolutely thrilled !!

Does this now mean I can no longer be pursued for the debt ?

I was really nervous in court today. I had already been up with the sheriff just 2 hearings earlier with my claim of bank charges against RBS. I will leave a seperate post for this at rrfcfan v rbos thread in the Scotland forum .

I had sent in the incidental application laid out and kindly provided by rory32 just yesterday.

When I was called in front of the Sheriff I failed to see an Irwins representative . The Sheriff called the Solicitor and there was indeed no rep.

The Sheriff, suprised by this after all it was the first calling date, dimissed the case.

WOW, absolutely thrilled !!

Does this now mean I can no longer be pursued for the debt ?

hi rrfcfan

thats two welcome results in one day

to answer your question

as the judge has dismissed the case, welcome i believe would now need the permission of the court to bring fresh proceedings

very unlikly,
they had there chance

as this is scottish law
rory is your man on this, so wait for confirmation

very well done and very pleased for you


welcomes days are numbered

share price now at 12 pence and going down