Thread: Can anyone suggest a way out?

Hello there. I'm new to these forums, spent a lot of time over the last couple of days looking around and, gosh, how useful they are. Wish that I'd known about them a few years ago!

Anyhows, I just wondered if anyone has any siuggestions or practical experience that might help, as I feel that I've gone as far as I can in my own research/knowledge and also have reached the end of the road in lots of other ways.

I was going to post this in the main debt forums, but as I wrote it, I just thought that it was really more appropriate here - please move it or whatever if it's in the wrong place.

And apologies, it's long and probably full of self-pity; and I know that I'm not the only one in this boat, either (though sometimes it feels like it!)

Basically, the OH (unmarried) without my knowledge ran up a very large amount of unsecured c/card and loan debts (from the mid 1990s? No documentation available yet) which I finally found out about a couple of years ago, and I then had to take charge of the situation for him. I got the interest stopped and got him onto a dmp (20 years!!! We'll both be retired by then) with one of the charities, which he's paid to date OK, though it's going to ahve to be reduced this year because of rising costs and our circumstances (see below).

So far there haven't been too many really bad things happening compared to what some people are reporting: but in my mind that just doesn't matter - it's more than bad enough for me, and I'm living in a state of constant terror and panic, and have been since the day that I discovered what was going on and how bad it was. Our relationship is pretty shot, although we're still just about together, and I've gone from a highly-paid professional job to a mental wreck, and had to stop work nearly 2 years ago through both mental health issues (ongoing) and the stress making other conditions and disabilities which I have worse (also ongoing and worsening). Nothing that the doctor can do except diagnose me with moderate depression, anxiety, stress, etc and give me sick notes. Seeing a counsellor and various other medics, but fundamentlly the money side isn't their problem, is it? Fundamentally, I have little prospects of working again, especially in the area in which we live and given my disabilities, and little way of studying/re-training without income (Catch 22).

Consequently I'm now trying and failing to pay my bills on a small amount of non-means-tested state benefits (so that's me insolvent soon enough), and yet he's meant to be able to support me, so we we can't claim anything else, which is a joke when the dmp is taking all but what he needs to live on as, effectively, a single person (it has to be kept about £100 anyway). The truth is that he is having to support me, and we're pretty much on the edge, although so far surviving, but...
It was OK whilst I had my job and own income (which was sufficient to let me live reasonably comfortably and to be able to help him out when he needed it or pay for stuff for him, etc- ) but now that I'm unable to work, it isn't.

I did tell the DMP people about our situaiton and various potentially legally-relevant issues, and they know that he's living with me (please do not use the word "partner" - it's so absolutely inappropriate for how we are and how I feel!) and how we operate our finances and assets and lives - and it was their decision to do the DMP using his income and expenditure only - I don't know whether that's usual or not. Then again, at the time, things were very different, and I was very self-sufficient and supporting him.

Fundamentally, I just need these dratted things got rid of!!!
I've said that from the start, and I say it every day, and it's driving me mad (literally). I know that he shouldn't have run them up (I don't know what it was on but suspect simply that he didn't understand a lot of what was going on, wasn't earning much and was over-spending on basics - we're not very materialistic or high-spending people - and then got into the credit card and loan interest and penalty charge minimum payment trap, etc) and it seems to both of us that he should pay back what he can, but given our current and likely future circumstances it's just not feasible. They're nothing to do with me, and I didn't even know about them, but they're wrecking my life and mind in a very, very serious way and I really can't continue to live in such a state of uncertainty, fear, etc for the next couple of decades.
My fault for not being able to deal with it, maybe, but that's who I am, and it's not my fault that he did what he did and didn't even tell me or ask me for help (I hope merely though pride, although the suspicions are always there - just another worry and trust issue to add to the list...).

I should add that my involvement, apart from just being a friend, someone with a background that makes me technically able to deal reasonably with a lot of legal and financial stuff, and just having a vested interest in the whole mess, one way or another, is mainly because he isn't educationally very well equipped, and has literacy and numeracy issues (dyslexic or similar probelms), so he can't really cope on his own in dealing with these things, can't research them or make notes or write letters, etc - and there's no-one else who can, except me. In fact, when it all came to light, he'd even got into a state where they'd closed all his bank accounts, and he can't open another one (and doesn't want to have anything to do with them anyway because of the mess he got himself in and his admitted inability to keep control over his "ins and outs", even today, despite me trying to teach him over and over) so he's using a basic current account in my name (kept and recorded very separately - but all watched and dealt with by me, of course) for all his income and payment transactions, and has to my knowledge no other cards or accounts at all. He's not in a state where he needs a power of attorney, and without paying someone to do it, it'd only be me anyway(!), but he does need ongoing help and advice, and is not in a position to obtain it himself. Unfortunately, we don't have other friends or family to help us out, and are on our own, and I'm the one who's trying to hold it all together, and I can't any more. But if I allow myself to crack and give up then I suspect that it all falls down very easily.

"We" tried to offer a full & final settlement just after the DMP was started with the hope that it could all be put a stop to there and then, and a fresh start made for both of us: but they wouldn't bite, even though it was quite a good % offer - 60+, I recall. I was still working at the time and could have paid it off OK, and in fact did actually raise the maximum amount of extra additional mortgage finance for that purpose which I could at the time (hence how we got to the % offer figure, simply the most that I could then afford), and would probably have continued to be able to pay that off by working because it would have got the creditors paid off and allowed that fresh, unburdened start - well, except for the mortgage!

But now, of course, it's all fallen apart, and whilst I can still technically access that facility/funds (I've deliberately kept them available just in case we can still use them to get the creditors to go away, albeit to my own stress and inconvenience and cost), there's no way that I can afford to use them to pay off his debts as I'd originally intended, and if they were used then he could only afford to pay off a part of the overall potential borrowings (equalivalent to his DMP amounts at the max, allowing for rising interest rates again).
Perhaps 40% max of the outstanding amount could be offered, although realistically, that's pushing it a lot further than I'd be comfortable with: but at least if it converted debts and worry into one payment and a certainty situation vis a vis a mortgage then I'd be happier. Far from ideal, I know, but in my mind it'd be a better situation - only if they wouldn't take the F&FS before, will they now?

I'm terrified about the house (mine now, used to be joint, with just about everything in it mine by right of purchase and past ownership) and my/out/the whole future in general, and really cannot deal with any more paperwork, even thinking about this, researching it, planning, etc - it's just taken over my life and ruined it. I really don't want them raking through my own affairs (we keep our finances and assets very separate and always have done), nor getting involved in legal or other paperwork issues or asking any questions - I'd be the one who'd have to deal with that, and I just seriously can't face it any more. I'm in tears and anxiety every day, and to ask me to try and deal with anything else would just very seriously be the end of me, one way or the other.
To this end I'm trying to do everything to try and keep them sweet (although I am going to ask for the CCA copies now that I've found out about that alleyway), and just praying that they don't issue court proceedings or worse.
I couldn't face IVA or anything like that, even if there wasn't the house at stake, which I guess we'd have to sell because I/we can't now afford to pay off the interest/capital on the required equity share which I guess would be expected (less than the debts, but still substantial), and generally again there's just too much uncertainty, risk, questions, fear...
I'm terrified of doing anything at all, really, in case it stirs something up - but equally, I can't continue living with the status quo.

Trouble is, we live in a rural area where there isn't much help. Asked the DMP company, asked CAB... No-one can give us any help or ideas except to stick with the DMP and just hope that he keeps his job/income and that the creditors just keep on accepting it, don't take any furtehr action and basically leave things as they are, leaving us skint and unable to do much at all in terms of enjoyment or anything else for the rest of our lives, and with me having little prospect of recovery and work or training whilst this is hanging over me/us.
To me, however, that's simply not good enough, as there's no certainty and, effectively, no end: so I'm just worried sick and can't see that I'll stop being like that until the things are paid off, or at least there's something solid in writing so that I can relax a little knowing that they won't take further action or threaten assets/house, etc. I can't understand how they can apparently accept a DMP over 20 years and yet won't take a lump sum to satisfy them. But again, even if "we" re-offered what we could realistically afford from my mortgage borrowing facility (even if worded in this standard "a friend" terms, dodgy as that seems), they might ask questions, it might open cans of worms... I can't face the thoguht of that!

I just want some fairy Godmother to come and wave some magic wand and let it all be over, so that we can put it all behind us and start again and try and rebuild our lives (my life - after all, I did nothing wrong at all; in fact, I think that I've done everything that I can to try and help him out of it, and I'm a pretty honest and genuine person as far as I see things and in my dealings). It's such a constant reminder to the relationship every day, never mind when letters or phone calls come!
But apparently there aren't any such things as fairy Godmothers - unless anyone knows differetly.

Sorry to rant on, but I'm just in such a state all the time and I can't see a way out. Can anyone? Much appreciation and thanks for any suggestions.

He has lived in homes which I have owned for around 15 years, always under some form of no-rights legal agreement as required by mortgage company plus latterly under a licence at will as advised & worded by solicitor. He pays for his share of bills and expenditure, reimburses me on a very exact basis for anything which I buy for him of for any use of my assets (eg car) (I am a financial control freak!) and doesn't contribute to anything to do with the capital/fabric of the house; I charge him a nominal non-commerical rent and was advised that this is OK.

His current debts are just over £30k now, 2 making up the majority and 2 at a balance of about 5k between them: all standard high-street bank/cards.

Equity in the house at the moment? A lot more than he owes because I've effectively paid off the mortgage, so whatever the sale value of the house is, if indeed it can be sold in the present climate: but it's mine.
The house is about at the lowest end of the housing costs around the area where we live (rural or town), and I've spent many years looking for somewhere cheaper if we could move areas comepltely, but there aren't many now, and he'd have to try and get another job and lots of other practical considerations vis a vis trading down even if I could take the stress of doing that - which I couldn't! Also, of course, it's stupid to try and release equity with prices so low if it can be helped - again a dilemma becuase if I could to get them to go away I could, but at the same time I rationally have to think about my future because this is my only asset left, my pension/retirement plan, etc (he has none).

I severely doubt that I can now get any form of other secured loan/mortgage (certainly not at a reasonable rate) because of my own circumstances - hence, for a start, why I've kept the existing one open, although I otherwise would have paid it off and closed it a couple of years ago - it's only being kept open in case I can use it to pay the creditors to go away and, frankly, I'd like to use it as such and close that down as well becuase it's one less complication and bit of paperwork stress for me to have to deal with.

Amount that I could absolutely access by use of mortgage for his use around £25k; BUT practical amount of mortgage repayment which he could afford to pay on my behalf (which creates further complications, but I certainly can't pay a dime myself) - well, depends on the interest rate, but assuming that we'll end up somewhere back in the 5%ish average rates in the "average" future, and bearing in mind that there's another 15-20 years left on the mortgage (repayment type), then it would work backwards at around £20k assuming that his income continues as it is.

HOWEVER, that's also working on the assumption that he can actually afford that amount, being just over the monthly amount which he's currently paying on the dmp - and the point is that realistically he can't, not if he has to pay my share of bills and costs as well. I could quite happily use up just about all of his surplus monthly income if I wanted to (I haven't yet because I've been eating into savings, but they're fast going and it would only take one big repair bill...) - on my own calculations, I'm on negative average monthly income of £100's (i.e. excess costs over income), and that's only taking into account my own essential costs.

So, the real answer to your question (and sorry if I've missed the point) is that "we" can't afford to give them much at all. (When I was working, if they'd accepted the F&FS offer which we made then, it would have been different.)
But needs must, and I'm desperate to get rid of this whole thing hanging over me, so the alternative answer is simply how little can they be persuaded to take? I'll just have to give up some of my medical/psychological treatments or stop eating, turn off the heating or something, because I'm already living on the most basic budget that I can; and technically, under the dmp, so is he! He has a job/type of work which isn't ever likely to give promotion, so whatever he's on now is where he's going to stay at best (subject to annual inflation-level rises).

The mortgage facility on the above rates/assumptions would cost about 0.6 pence per month per £1000 borrowed - so £60pm on £10k pay-off, £90 on £15k, £120 on £20k etc. These would be the sums replacing the current DMP - which you can work out is around £125 a month but, as I said, really isn't sustainable.

Sorry, rambling again - does that shed any more light on things?

So very sorry to hear about your worries - the body does horrid weird things when faced with debt!! Your o/h is totally seperate and has nothing to do with your house - which by the sounds is legally documented -therefore if everything is getting on top and he cannot afford to meet his commitments then has he as a last resort thought about bankcrupcy? This site offers lots of threads to follow to see if it is the best route - it may be the solution for you to and who knows it may be the step for you towards a healthier life style.

Jalow

Thanks for those replies. Yes, in some ways BR would appear to be a viable option - but having had a quite read of some info and links I don't think that it'd help me at all: in fact, given its paperwork, legalities and the like, and the fact that my expenditure/income and rent issues, etc, would mean that I am involved even without my need to help him out anyway, it's more to cope with than ever, and he certainly couldn't manage it without my input and explanations; and I couldn't manage dealing with it at all now. Maybe in a few years, if I've recovered at all.

It's this kind of official thing that I'm so desperate to avoid, you see: and have been since the start. Much as I've worked with formal paperwork and legal-type stuff and people all my working life, it's something which, for several reasons and past bad experiences (please don't ask why, my psychotherapist is spending ages still trying to work that one out!), causes me a huge amount of distres and worry when it's personal in any way, and I simply cannot cope with it on a mental health level. To a large degree, this is what lies at the root of a lot of my "problems" and stressors, so really it has to be avoided. I won't go into further details, but please believe me, I can't cope doesn't just mean a few tears and loss of sleep...

That, really, was one of the points of my original post - I need (in an ideal world) some way that these can be got rid of easily and quickly in an affordable manner, and as opposed to BR, say, I'm (we're) prepared to take the future financial risk and pay off whatever can be afforded now to get rid of them: but I can't stand the fear of this stirring anything else up - which I know is in reality a risk which can't be avoided.

Even writing this post and replies, looking around the net, etc, has set me off "good style" again and causing 24/7 distress and worse - so really I ought to stop, I suppose, and just try to find a way to cope with carrying on living as we have been. I guess that things were reasonably under control (creditor letter weeks excepted) until the dmp annual review came up recently, and that in itself, just a simple phone call and a bit of looking at expenditure figures, was too much for me to be able to cope with! (Hence the post and the desperate need to get rid of these things, and everything connected with them from around my neck.) Every time that anything at all come up which requires thinking about the debts and their consequences or potential consequences, it just takes over my mind and life for days, weeks, months... Again, I know I'm not the only one who gets affected like this, but with the added complication of him not being able to deal with stuff himself (and in some respects, not even worrying or caring - I'm sure that he does, but not in the way or to the level that I do, hes much more fatalistic and laid back), I just wish that there was someone out there who could come and take it all away. This whole thing is just too terrifying and uncertain for me even to think straight: but, in reality, whichever way you look at it, I'm going to have to get and stay involved in his mess until it's resolved, one way or the other - that, or they lock me away in a little padded cell or... Well, let's not persue that thought..

I just wish that they'd give us an indication that they'd accept a F&FS (or similar) offer of whatever we can manage to give them, which on the figures which I gave above would probably be in the region of 30-40% max? Hopefully then it's just a letter or two, no involvement of anyone external to ourselves and the payment of the money (assuming that everything is then marked as satisfied, etc), and it's over with bar paying off the source of the funds. Even the thought of doing this terrifies me, I can't see an easier way. I know that in some respects that's not the "best" thing to do, but in my head, and in the way that I think and knowing what I can and can't cope with, then that's what I want. To get into BR or anything else wouldn't make them instantly disappear - from what I read it's at least a year to 3 years potentially; if they could be paid off now, then it's done and over.

Funny thing is, he did receive letters of offer from a few of his medium-sized original creditors (after writing to them making the original F&FS offer) to accept F&FS payments at the levels which I'm now proposing making to the others (actually lower than orignially offered!) - it seems strange that some will therefore take it and others won't. And if he went the BR route then they'd probably get nothing at all - but I don't want to plant that suggestion in their heads by raising it.

I'd write to them myself explaining my positon and begging with them if it'd help (saying that I could borrow the money from my family, or something - or not disclosing the source, or whatever's recommended/legal - there seems to be a lot of funny/potentially-dodgy wording and legalities surrounding F&FS letters, from what I've researched) - but I suppose that they wouldn't pay any attention, what with the DPA, contract law and all that. Would it help if he wrote (well, in his name) and did some begging about my state of health and mind, and his need to have to start paying for me, do you think? (Do they even care about the effect that things have on other people?) Or would this still raise red flags in some way? Again (not that there's anything wrong here, just becuase of my inability to cope) I don't want to have to start answering questions or providing explanations and stuff.

OK, enough, thanks for reading, sorry for once again rambling on.

Originally Posted by TEB

His current debts are just over £30k now, 2 making up the majority and 2 at a balance of about 5k between them: all standard high-street bank/cards.

Can you break this down a bit?

CreditCard1 = £
CreditCard2 = £
Bank A/C1 = £

How old are the cards and bank accounts?
Considering you have been reading posts on CAG for a few days, you probably are aware that charges can be reclaimed, although Bank account ones will more than likely get clogged up in the system, credit card ones shouldn't.

Are there any charges you can attempt to reclaim?

BobbyH

I am going to write to the credit card ones re charges, and perhaps consider if there's anything under the PPI reclaims if they supply him with the terms, contract etc which I'm also going to do - got the letters printed off today so hopefully get them out in the next few days.
I don't yet know when they were taken out - post 1995, probably around late 1990s to 2004-ish, so not a lot of the 6 years left, either. Realistically I don't think that there's too much to come back in charges given what they are, but if we can get the information then we'll see what can be done - every little helps, I suppose.

The Breakdown is, roughly:

debt collection arm of high-street bank (I think re one of their credit cards) £13-14k
Another high-street bank (I think a loan consolidating older credit card debts) £10k ish
The same bank but a loan from their credit card arm £5k
A pure credit card (non high-street company) £1-2k

Sorry, can't lay my hands on the exact figures at the moment.

Also, sorry to be vague, but he can't really remember what they were taken out for, or what, hasn't kept any paperwork, statements or the like - and obviously I didn't know a thing about them until long after they were opened, used and into default or near-default situations. I tried at the time to get to the bottom of what was there but never have, and so far have only been working off whatever demands and statements or notices have arrives after I learnt about them about 3 years ago. I've only just become aware of the right to ask for the original CCA documents and statements, etc, so hopefully these should shed light on the full saga and history (if they are sent, of course).

It look like you are going about this the right way. Subject access request these companies for all information and then see what turns up. Unfortunately, its a bit of a waiting game, but might be worth it in the end.

Keep this thread updated with any progress.

BobbyH