Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
hey i have worked for the past 15 yrs but lost my job in march 08... i am now claiming jsa at 60.50 per week. out off the blue they have started to take 2.20 a week off me for a crisis loan i knew nothing about. i got a letter from them stateing they were takeing 2.20 per week off me but no dates off wen this happened. i rang them and they said it was a crisis loan i got off them in summer off 1991.... i knew nothing about it and there attitude is tough. if i had off known about it i would off paid it off as i was working the crisis load was for 35.00 is there a time limit they can claim this back as they say i can not appeal against this....
There is no time limit with government debts. If the time of six years (five in Scotland) has elaspsed with no acknowledgement and no communication then they cannot take recovery action through the courts, but can ask you to repay it. And any time you begin to receive benefit they have the right to reclaim it via your benefit, as benefit is public funds as are Social Fund payments. So in short you can't not repay it, or appeal it, as at the time you took out the loan you would have signed a declaration and agreed to make the repayments.
However, if you don't believe you took the Crisis Loan out, then you will need to dispute this in writing, stating that you do not believe the loan to have been taken out by yourself. What they will then do, is request your original paper file from their remote storage facility and check the declaration which a customer has to sign agreeing to the loan and repayments when the loan is taken out. In the meantime they will still recover the amounts and have the right to do so. Government debts are not like debts to DCA's, and the applicable legislation is different. If they discover the loan is not yours, they will refund the repayments they took from your benefit.
If you are worried about them not taking you seriously, get your MP involved. They may try to fob you off, but an MP usually gets them moving
ok theres a problem here 18 years is a bit of a long time for u to pay it back
The files in remote storage are only kept for 4 years i have been told The reason i say that is i have been requesting info from remote storage for a few years re a loan i alledgly agreed to and they have told me in writing they cant find the paper work ass it is more than 4 years old but when i first requested it the paper work was just under 4 years old.
Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.
Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.
Files in remote storage are set with different dates for file destruction for each benefit and each Social Fund Loan. For a loan which has not been repaid they are not set to be destroyed until 2999, so definately not 4 years. Once it is repaid then it is set for destruction 14 months after the end of the financial year in which it was paid off.
As your file is very old it may well be the case that they are unable to locate it in which case they cannot prove anything either way and should write the debt off. Quite often they say they are unable to locate the files as they are over a certain time period - this basically means "we should have them, but we can't find them". Sometimes files are destroyed in error prematurely. If they cannot locate the file for whichever reason, that means they cannot prove the debt exists and therefore have no recourse to reclaim it, try as they might. If they could reclaim a debt with no proof, they could write to anyone stating they owe money, because "the computer says so". Without substantial evidence, i.e something with your signature on accepting the loan and repayments there is no substantial proof.
When a Social Fund Loan is taken out, it is usually repaid from benefit deductions. If you are not on benefit, (for Crisis Loans, being in reciept of benefit is not a requirement) a declaration still has to be signed agreeing to the repayments and they can take recovery action via the court system if you do not stick to the repayment agreement. However once it goes over 6 years (5 in Scotland) with no communication or acknowledgement of the debt, they cannot recover it via the courts but can recover it from benefit, even your pension.
If you were on benefit at the time of the claim but later began work, it is normally transferred to the debt management Centre in Manchester rather than your local office to deal with, and your local office can take it back once you begin receiving benefit again.
Like I said if you don't believe the debt to be yours the only way to put an end to it is to write in disputing it and requesting they provide you with evidence of the debt. They may try to fob you off by telling you they are not required to send that information (they tried this one on with me) OR send you prints from their computer system which proves nothing. They might even send you a copy of the declaration from your application, which again proves nothing. What you need to ask for is a copy of the declaration where you allegedly agreed to the loan sum and repayment sums. If they try to be difficult, alert your MP and they'll soon move on it.
thanks every one for your support. i ahave got the ball rolling by asking for a copy off original documents. will let you all know what happens.....thanks again..
Files in remote storage are set with different dates for file destruction for each benefit and each Social Fund Loan. For a loan which has not been repaid they are not set to be destroyed until 2999, so definately not 4 years. Once it is repaid then it is set for destruction 14 months after the end of the financial year in which it was paid off. Thats strange as they cant seem to find any docs to do with a social fund loan they are claiming we have not paid back which was taken out this time 4 years ago but when i first querried it was only 3.5 years ago. They have told me the docs have been destroied as per the DWP rules.
As your file is very old it may well be the case that they are unable to locate it in which case they cannot prove anything either way and should write the debt off. Quite often they say they are unable to locate the files as they are over a certain time period - this basically means "we should have them, but we can't find them". Sometimes files are destroyed in error prematurely. If they cannot locate the file for whichever reason, that means they cannot prove the debt exists and therefore have no recourse to reclaim it, try as they might. If they could reclaim a debt with no proof, they could write to anyone stating they owe money, because "the computer says so". Without substantial evidence, i.e something with your signature on accepting the loan and repayments there is no substantial proof.
When a Social Fund Loan is taken out, it is usually repaid from benefit deductions. If you are not on benefit, (for Crisis Loans, being in reciept of benefit is not a requirement) a declaration still has to be signed agreeing to the repayments and they can take recovery action via the court system if you do not stick to the repayment agreement. However once it goes over 6 years (5 in Scotland) with no communication or acknowledgement of the debt, they cannot recover it via the courts but can recover it from benefit, even your pension.
If you were on benefit at the time of the claim but later began work, it is normally transferred to the debt management Centre in Manchester rather than your local office to deal with, and your local office can take it back once you begin receiving benefit again. Its not manchester any more its salford. I have queried this with DWP as i hve recieved letters from both.
Like I said if you don't believe the debt to be yours the only way to put an end to it is to write in disputing it and requesting they provide you with evidence of the debt. They may try to fob you off by telling you they are not required to send that information (they tried this one on with me) OR send you prints from their computer system which proves nothing. They might even send you a copy of the declaration from your application, which again proves nothing. What you need to ask for is a copy of the declaration where you allegedly agreed to the loan sum and repayment sums. If they try to be difficult, alert your MP and they'll soon move on it.
you will need to write to the DWP and ask for proof of debt they will then look for it and MAY even pass it to Data protection officer based in Manchester who will then write to you.
Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.
Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.
The debt management centre in manchester still exists. Either that or I totally imagined the conversation I had with someone there yesterday. The policies re the destruction of files is not 4 years. It may be a "local office" rule but they shouldn't be doing that. Someone doesn't know what they are doing. I had the policies checked again today to be certain and the guidelines for the destruction of Social Fund files haven't changed any.
From what i have been told erika in writing and verbally is 4 year this has also been confirmed by a junior minister of the DWP Office in london. Also the lady i was talking to re my full SAR told me MANCHESTER has been closed down and all now going to salford.......Sorry if u work in manchester and have just heard.......She is in charge of all Data protection requests for anything to do with the DWP this includes the debt managment centres so if what she has told me is a lie then the letter she sent will need a full investigation as she cant deny a letter.
If the info i have been given is wrong about the destruction of docs then i will need to fully blame the goverment as they have also confirmed this is correct procedure
Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.
Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.
ive have just rung dwp and they are going to send me all the info they have on the account of 1991......the supervisor there agreed that it was such a long time and a waste because of the amount con cerned!!!! 18yrs !!!!!! after i threatened to try and get watch dog bbc involved!!! i will keep you all posted.....
The information about the destruction of docs is definately wrong. A file is "Live" until it is fully paid, unless it is a grant which is not repayable. Live files cannot be destoyed until they are paid, they then go "dormant". Dormant files are destroyed 14 months after the end of the financial year in which they were paid or in the case of a non repayable grant, 14 months after the end of the financial year in which the decision was made. That's for Social Fund. There are different time limits for other benefits. For example, Jobseekers allowance is 18 months after the file becomes dormant.
Also it is not the DWP who destroy the files. It's the company they are subcontracted to - Capita, unless the DWP has requested a file back and it is due for destruction, only then do they destroy it. Instructions are given during the electronic databasing of files before they are sent by courier to remote storage, on how long they should be kept for. There is talk at the moment about new guidelines coming out, whereby "dormant" files will be destroyed 6 months after they become dormant.
If files were allowed to be destoyed before the final payment was made on them, there would be no budget to continue to process social fund claims as millions of pounds worth of debt would not be able to be reclaimed.
Also the trouble with "senior" DWP officials is they have no idea about these things. They have far more to concern themselves with than filing duties.
well then if this is the case erika i will be speaking to the junior minister and the dwp on minday but i do think they will deny all the info you have provided based on the convos i have had so far when they have claimed that ur wrong.
Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.
Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.
news flash i just got post from dwp this morning. instead off proof that i owe anything they have sent me an addressed envelope. nothing else !!! no correspondance or anything!!!!!!
Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.
Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.
well then if this is the case erika i will be speaking to the junior minister and the dwp on minday but i do think they will deny all the info you have provided based on the convos i have had so far when they have claimed that ur wrong.
I'm not that bothered who you speak to, to be perfectly frank....like I said senior civil servants have more to concern themselves with than filing and more often than not know nothing of what goes on on the shop floor. Unless they are physically processing the files, and setting the destruction dates and checking the guidance to ensure the dates of destruction, they cannot provide a knowledgeable answer. And I reiterate it's not DWP that store the files or destroy them, it's Capita. Files are held in a local office for no longer than 8 weeks before being couried to Capita's remote storage facility.
news flash i just got post from dwp this morning. instead off proof that i owe anything they have sent me an addressed envelope. nothing else !!! no correspondance or anything!!!!!!
The addressed envelope will probably be for you to send your dispute in writing, I'd ring and ask to speak to the supervisor of the recovery department on Monday - they'll arrange a call back for you.
repayment off social fund after 18 years....
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Re: repayment off social fund after 18 years....
Originally Posted by ErikaPNP
