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Hey. i need some advice. on the 10th of this month on my way home from asda i was driving along the A92 (Greendykes road) which i and others were doing 40 on. apparently its a 30 zone and i got clocked at 41. i drove past the road again the next saturday observing the area. leaving dundee's douglas asda i went along moffat road and took a left down kingsway east to the 5 roads roundabout then down the A92 greendykes road. if you google maps it its dual carriageway.
when i drove past it again it is very much so not clearly sign posted as there is a 30 sign that looks like it is for strips of craigie road. at the start of greendykes road on the road itself there is white lines indicating speed however this is very much so faded and you need to squint to make out the 30. driving down the road (at 30) i noticed most cars overtaking me at about 40.... so its not just me that thinks this.
my point is that i was unaware i was speeding so what can i do about it?
If you have a video camera, take a slow drive from Asda filming all the way so that you have evidence. Also take some still pics of the 30 sign.
Was this a camera ticket or a police car?
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i got the NIP so i sent that off ASAP and should be getting a conditional or whatever this week or early next week.
i looked into what happens and process and stuff so i have 3 choices. guilty, not guilty or guilty with mitigation.
what should i do from here? plead guilty with mitigation and write to the courts explaining reasons as my first post? or phone somewhere to advise of the situation?
check that the signs and limits are correctly signed and enforceable. they are supposed to check all that before starting the session but often fail to and or get it wrong. And check the signs are where they supposed to be - they do get put up in the wrong location, it has to be exact.
I would suggest you do a Google search on "fightback forums" and then go to the site that the search brings up. They have many who have a lot of expertise on speeding matters and would be able to give you good advise.
I am not saying that CAG isn't able to provide that, but the fightback forum site specialises in motoring matters.
mitigation ? you mean special reasons not to endorse. you have shown none and I expect have none. plus you question the signs - validate the signage ! go back, take plenty pf pictures, post them up. measure the positions of the signs. check the Traffic Order.
Having just looked at Google Earth, the street lighting is approx 40 yards apart which indicates a 30mph zone in the absence of any other speed limit indications.
You can see the 30mph circular speed sign painted on the road as you enter Greendykes Road from the roundabout. Not sure how you got the idea that the painted sign applied to Strips of Craigie Road, because it is 45 yards past the junction. Most telling of all, however, is that there are no speed limit signs posted on the corners of any of the side roads leading off Greendykes Road. That is always a good indication in a built up area that you are already in a 30 mph zone.
It would appear at first glance that your entire route was in a 30mph zone.
MBNA - Agreed to refund £970 in full without conditions. Cheque received Sat 5th Aug.
Lloyds - Settled for an undisclosed sum.
Have found a council document authorising a reduction in the permitted speed on Arbroath Road, which is the continuation of Kingsway, from 40 to 30mph which does confirm that Kingsway itself is likely to be 40mph.
If all roads leading off the roundabout are 30mph, I would expect to find a 30mph speed limit sign on either side of the carriageway on KINGSWAY, on the approach to the roundabout.
If the council have located them there, it would mean that the roundabout itself would be 30mph and there would be no requirement for any further signs except for Westbound on Kingsway which would raise the limit to 40mph.
Somewhere, you should have passed two 30mph signs, one on each side of the carriageway.
It still might not get you off the hook, as the street lighting alone without repeater signs is an enforceable indication of the road speed limit. which is why Pat asked the question about lighting.
the 30 sign on the ground has seen better days. the google maps picture isnt current
Doesn't matter. It is always an additional sign and with no enforceability of its own. IOW, the on-road surface roundel is not sufficient on its own to prescribe a limit.
It still might not get you off the hook, as the street lighting alone without repeater signs is an enforceable indication of the road speed limit. which is why Pat asked the question about lighting.
Just so. The lights alone are sufficient indication in law. In a 30 mph limit with lighting, 30 mph repeater signs are specifically forbidden. For any other limit within a lit length of road, there must be repeater signs.
Passed along the bottom of Greendykes road today (read this post yesterday). certainly has 30mph sign at bottom and no repeater signs on lamp posts. 40mph repeaters on the Ferry road lamp posts. Now for the truth---many people, self included, have used this DUAL CARRIAGEWAY for years, at speeds in excess of 30mph. What is the purpose of a dual if not to allow increased speed. Sorry, I can't help you, but how about inserting a piece in the readers letters column in the COURIER. This would warn other people of the 30 limit, and if enough public support gained, then authorities MAY just place more prominent signage. You should be aware of the power of the Courier---no more bridge tolls!!!
What is the purpose of a dual if not to allow increased speed.
The dual will increase the volume of traffic a road can take per minute, which in itself can lead to increased average speed and therefore reduce journey time.
Crem, this is rather a unique road. We non Dundonians call it "Pylon Road or Brae" At the bottom of this road is the main Dundee-B/Ferry road. The junction is controlled by traffic lights both entry and exit. When one starts climbing up this road, the central area is wide and is home to huge pylons. There is a roundabout approx half way up. The road terminates at the large roundabout at the end of the Kingsway, and has an awkward left twist at this point. This is the steepest part of the road and between the twist and incline it is a nightmare trying to get away, especially for laden HGV's, given that the trailer will be partly over the other lane. No traffic lights at top. There is no motoring or safety reason for this road to be limited to 30mph, hence most of us travel faster. If the authorities are hell bent on this being restricted to 30, then signing needs to be displayed much more prominently. I feel deeply sorry for Thanatos, as I got done for speeding on a dual carriageway between Glasgow and Paisly, many years ago. That is why i suggest puting something in the Courier.
It may be a dual carriageway, but from the looks of the road, it passes through a highly populated residential area where the pavement and the carriageway are not separated. There are bus stops at several locations with no lay-bys, meaning buses stop in the carriageway. The carriageway itself appears to be only about 20 foot wide and did not (at the time of the photo I have just looked at, have a central lane separator). Two trucks can no doubt pass each other, but there's not much space between them and each side of the curb. There are also a number of side roads leading onto and off the road with some pretty tight corners, and through passageways across the central reservation for traffic that wishes to turn right. Two vehicles stood one behind the other waiting for a gap in the traffic will, quite possibly, result in the second having it's rear end slightly foul of the carriageway. There is also, as you say, a roundabout halfway up.
All of this can result in stationary and slowing traffic pulling in and out of some pretty tight junctions, pedestrians, buses stopped in the carriageway and traffic pulling out to pass them etc and you would suggest it is a 40mph or higher speed road?
I think that the residents of Greendykes Road and the surrounding streets might well disagree with you on that one. Incidently, Thanatos was travelling down the hill where I suspect they have far more trouble stopping if travelling at excessive speed.
MBNA - Agreed to refund £970 in full without conditions. Cheque received Sat 5th Aug.
Lloyds - Settled for an undisclosed sum.
RM. You have completely taken out of context what I wrote. Of course I don't advocate "High Speed". 40mph in a modern vehicle is a crawl. As for residential area--yes, but Dundee council (to the best of my knowledge) don't force anyone to live there, and the houses are a reasonable distance from road and not at road level.
The salient point is that this stretch of road is part of the MAIN TRUNK road serving East Scotland and carrying all the traffic from east Angus south. Many of us, inc. HGV's from the North East, use this road to reach the Tay Bridge for forward journey through Fife, joining the M90 @ Dunfermline. This saves them the trail all the way to Perth and up the steep Balmanno Hill at BoE.
Their is a growing number of us petitioning Govt. to have the A92 dualled in it's entirety through Fife, as slow moving vehicles make this road a nightmare and very dangerious. As I write this, the words "heat & kitchen" spring to mind. No -Greendykes RD. should not be a race track, but many of the problems you highlight could be quickly and cheaply eradicated. To assist staying competetive in these hard economic times, we need our goods and people to minimise journey times.
Dundee is a road speed mess. You have a 50mph limit going from the station along past the airport. When does one ever get the chance to travel at anything like 50 here--only one slow vehicle can hold up everyone. During the last 6 weeks i have had to attend Ninewells Hosp. daily. Speeds on this road have varied from 28mph to 43mph.
Sorry Scaniaman. I didn't take it out of context. I was replying specifically to what you stated in your post:
There is no motoring or safety reason for this road to be limited to 30mph, hence most of us travel faster.
I simply highlighted several reasons why Dundee Council could possibly consider the road speed limit of 30mph to be appropriate.
Irrespective of what we all think of speed limits, and I agree that at times they are beyond comprehension, we have to respect them or take the risk of getting caught out.
The OP posted that the road wasn't properly signposted. We've told him that it would appear that it is. If you are driving down a road which has street lights at regular intervals, whether it is dual carriage or not, you have to assume that the road is 30mph UNTIL you see a signpost indicating otherwise. As I also said in my initial reply, the fact that none of the side roads have speed limit signs on their entry is an almost cast iron guarantee that it's a 30 as well. He had plenty of indications, if he had chosen to look for them. Sadly he was pursuaded more by the speed of other drivers, many of whom have received similar documents no doubt.
By all means, if you want to go to the press and highlight this road as only having a 30mph limit that motorists are getting caught out by and that it should be higher or better signposted. Be prepared for two things though.
1. Being pointed towards the details of the local speed enforcement initiative giving locations of their speed cameras and the maximum permitted road speeds on those roads (I've so far come across four websites with those details for the Dundee area which includes Greendykes road and it's 30mph speed limit). Just google Greendykes road speed limit
2. The letter from the enraged residents whose son/daughter/dog was killed on the road by a motorist who chose to ignore the speed limit.
MBNA - Agreed to refund £970 in full without conditions. Cheque received Sat 5th Aug.
Lloyds - Settled for an undisclosed sum.
Speed Cameras?? Initially they were supposed to be located near accident blackspots etc. Now they are just cash generating machines, being situated at locations where an easy catch is imminent--like Greendykes RD. There is little or no accident records on this road. Like old lorry drivers (knights of the road) , todays good drivers warn oncoming drivers as to the location of van based cameras, which helps strangers as well as locals, evade these parasites.
Speeding ticket. Dundee
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Re: Speeding ticket. Dundee
Originally Posted by Thanatos
