Thread: Desperate Daniella -v- MSDW/Barclaycard

Hi Everyone,

I got my original MSDW Application Form from Barclays today. and it is barely legible, though I can just read most of it. As well as 'Application' it also says it's a 'Credit Agreement .....'

This was clearly a mailshot as my name and address are already there, and it tells me to send it back in the freepost envelope provided. Boxes to be completed about finances, job, etc.

Then usual stuff about if they issue me with a card I agree to be bound by the T&Cs etc....

In the DATA PROTECTION box there is a reference to Condition 16 of the terms and conditions.

At the bottom there is a large box about Balance Transfers.

On the second page, they have the same box about Balance Transfers at the top of the page as though this a run on, and immediately below this they have

FINANCIAL AND RELATED PARTICULARS

There are 10 points here. Even if I had a scanner you wouldn't be able to read them but they are a bit of synopsis about interest rates, payments and so on. There are references in these 10 points to Condition 6.8 and Condition 10.4. However these 10 points have no subsections at all, so clearly these conditions are to be found somewhere else. I will write and ask them where these are to be found.

DD

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Hi Slick,

Thank you. Didn't want to hijack at all - was just sharing info that what I had got appears very suspect, and advising what others may expect. Read a fortnight or so ago that apparently MSDW weren't coming up with any 'agreements' or that they had all been destroyed after the accounts had been running two/three months, but clearly they are finding them from somewhere. I think what I got is an excerpt from a leaflet, so probably not enforceable.

Thanks again.

DD

Even if I had a scanner there would be no point - it's hardly legible.

HI DD - You should take a look at mine......sounds like yours is pretty similar.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-needed-2.html

Hi Roco123,

I've just looked at yours. In your 'Financial and related particulars' you have references to Condition 17, and Condition 7.2 and it says these can be found in the terms and conditions. In other words, they are on a separate leaflet. They have clearly cut out this bit from the T&Cs, so I think it's well worth asking for the inspection.

At the moment I am just going to write back to them and ask them to explain these inconsistencies.

Like kstaplet my stuff has been blown up to A3 size. I think the whole particulars have been blown up from a much smaller leaflet but they are clearly trying to make out they are on the back.

Buggers.

DD

Hi,

I am thinking of sending the following to Barclaycard. Any thoughts would be helpful.


I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated enclosing what you confirm to be a copy of my original Morgan Stanley Credit Agreement. This is in fact my original Application Form for a Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Platinum Card, together with some “Financial and Related Particulars” which appear not to have any connection with the Application form.

As you must be aware, this is not a properly executed Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

It is scarcely legible, as any copy must be, but I can decipher most of it.

On the Application form in the 'Data Protection' box there is a reference to Condition 16 of the terms and conditions. There is no Condition 16 anywhere in the paperwork you have sent me.

In the “Financial and Related Particulars”, there are ten single points, but there are references to Condition 6.8 and Condition 10.4 which are not contained within these Particulars.

I should be grateful if you would explain these discrepancies.

Until such time as you provide a properly executed Credit Card Agreement this account remains in dispute.

Yours sincerely,



Anything else I need to say?

Thanks,

DD

Thank you, Slick.

I can't because I haven't got an scanner. Even I did they would be very hard to read because they have blown everything up to A3 size. I think that is very suspicious too!!

DD

They probably think sending it out A3 size will stop most people scanning it and uploading so others can point out the inconsistences

Shame on you Barclaysharks

Well, I can't upload it - haven't got a scanner - but you are right, if I did no-one would be able to read it. It is barely readable, but full of discrepancies and I have asked bcard to explain them.

Will post their reply

Write to them letting them know that the document purporting to be your agreement is hopelessly illegable and refer them to this:

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

2. Legibility notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of theAct shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily
distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].
(2) the wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed
agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act
without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed by these Regulations; and
(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.
(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced
in addition to any such Form.
(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

hello

I'm in similar boat, got my illegible A3 form today, I have my own thread and there is a scan on there should people wish to see it. Would be good to get a common consensus on the validity of this document

linky

Hi EL,

You are welcome any time! I have been looking but as you know it is a good old trawl through some threads. I'll go through again. Are you on Major Paine's thread? He got his dodgy stuff this morning?

DD

Hi Sunflower,

You are very welcome. I'm delighted to return the hospitality you've been giving me on your thread.

I cannot tell you how much grief I have had from Barclaycard in the past. Again, it's something I'm am dealing with so much better now that I have CAG.

The Barclaycard lot are totally different from our mutual friends at Debitas. For a start, they have three different names all of which are Barclaycard. So you start with calls from Barclaycard, then when they don't get anywhere you get calls from Mercers, and then some other people in the same office calling themselves Calder Financial start too.

For my sins I have three bcard accounts, this one (MS), then the original barclaycard which I think I got as a cheque guarantee card in 1986, and Barclaycard (Goldfish). Now as they own the lot I spend a lot of time talking at cross purposes with them.

Like you I was absolutely fed up with just throwing my money down the loo. Most of everything they took was interest. These companies all charge such extortionate interest any hopes of ever paying of the whole lot went long ago.

They are cleverer than Debitas in that they speak English, being based here. I personally always let them know I know they are "really Barclaycard."

On this thread (MS) I have got a complete mess of an agreement with conditions referred to which aren't there - rather like capone's infamous 23. I have written back to ask them to explain the discrepancies, and will post the answer here.

"Real" Barclaycard just sent a photocopy of their current T & Cs, and then a copy of the inside of a leaflet from 1986. Need to write back on that one - I think I've got a thread on that one (it's getting confusing ), but not much happening there. Haven't started a Goldfish thread yet as no reply at all so I'm about to send the default letter. I'm behind on my letters this week.

So if you do decide to speak to B/M/C you can just tell them you're waiting for the CCA as usual, but then they will always try to engage you in a conversation about whether you have had the money, spent the money, and so on. This is the bit where I say, "Gosh, look at the time. Got to go now."

I've told a couple of them that until I get the agreement I have absolutely no idea what I have been paying them, that I've heard there are serious discrepancies in the agreements, and I simply cannot understand their reluctance to provide the agreements if they want me to pay, "I don't understand it," I said to one bloke last week. "Do you understand why they wouldn't want to send the agreement?" He didn't understand it either.

It's outrageous that they are calling you at work, and if you had been having a nice day, wouldn't a call from a debt collector really make it so much better?

I'd get your CCA off quickly. One other thing to watch is that they are very hot at taking money from your account to pay themselves even if the account is in dispute. They nicked my child benefit money last month on the day it came in. fos were appalled and when I said I had reported them they gave it back.

Actually though since I have put the accounts in dispute the calls have really dropped off. They have a very, very aggressive dial-up system, and actually got fined last year for overdoing it. You'll get loads of silent calls, because they are so keen to get through they have more dial-ups than people to handle the calls. Very nice.

Anyway, you are an old hand with all the capone experience, so I'm sure you'll be able to deal with this lot!!.

DD

Hi there! Just thought I'd say hello as I too am going through it with Barclaycard. Also sick of the huge interest rates and the debt not going down much so decided to do something about it.

Have a Barclaycard which started as a Goldfish card years ago when they first issued them, I think around 1996 perhaps. Started off with a £500 limit and interest rates that seemed reasonable at the time for a credit card from what I can remember. The limit is now at 14k with extortionate rates of interest and unfortunatly my balance has managed to creep just into double figures. I'm a single parent with no financial help from the ex (he now lives abroad so gets away without contributing) and am now a student again after deciding to try and give my daughter and I a better future by going to uni at the ripe old age of 40! Thought I could just about manage my debts with my part time job but that hasn't happened with prices rising so much for everything.

Anyway, enough of the sob story! Cca'd Barclashark at beginning of Dec and haven't had a reply yet. The calls started just after my payment at end of Dec was due (not paid obviously) and have continued at between 4 - 10 a day. They even started ringing my daughter's mobile which I managed to put a stop to. I sent them a rather angry email saying I was reporting them to the relevent authorities for harrassing a minor and that I had logged times and dates of all the calls and texts. They stopped immediately but the house phone still kept going until today. Haven't had any calls at all today for some reason. Don't suppose they've given up on me that easily.

Am awaiting their terms and conditions and letter stating that's all they have to provide as that seems to be the usual from them at the moment.

Will keep an eye on your thread to see how you're doing with them.

Good luck!