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My 16 year old brother was driving (which I did not agree with) a small motorbike off road uninsured/no license when a local gang decided to chase him of the track. Scared, he went on to the road to get away from them and crashed into a Jag. The driver of the jag saw everything and reported to the police that my brother had no chance of avoiding him and the other lads where indeed chasing him attempting to kick him of the bike. He was quite seriously injured requiring an operation but is now on his feet. As he was injured the police will be taking it futher to teach him a lesson and will quite likly recieve a points/future ban and fine.
On saturday he recieved a letter from the insurance company operating on behalf of the other driver. They are looking to recover 2.5K for the repair of the jags bumber/hire car etc.
As he is only 16 who is actually liable for this? Him in the future as they cannot expect a 16 year old to pay such a debt at that age.... or my parents?
I only ask as my mother is out of her mind over this, my father is disabled and she cares for him, so only works part time as a local school cleaner. So this is quite a large sum of money to them too...
I would say he would be liable as he caused the damage. However there are a few other things i need to know really.
When you say riding off road what do you mean? Local park or private property ?
Does he have a provisional license ? If so has he done his CBT ?
What size engine was the bike ?
Have the police indicated weather he will be prosecuted and what for ?
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As far as I am aware, the parents have legal responsibility until the child reaches 18, so that would make them liable. Happy to be corrected, but that's always been my understanding.
Apologies to people who I was in the process of helping, I may be gone some time.
A nice local farmer allows a few of them to ride on a bit of wooded land which he has little use for at the back of his farm. The police are prosecuting him for, Driving Uninsured, without license with no MOT on public roads. He is accepting anything the police/court decides as he knows he was in the wrong. The officer looking over his case said as she knows the circumstances around the case, she is advising the prosecutor to settle out of court with points/fine. But did say as he was badly hurt the prosecutor may take it more seriously.
He/my mother are more worried where the legal responsibility lies to pay back this demand to the insurance company. With him or with my mother as he was only 16. We have never really had anything like this before; will they just take him to court and where he will be ordered to pay it back over time after he finishes collage?
Are the police not interested in the extenuating circumstances? The fact he was forced onto the road under duress?
How exactly has the Jag's insurer requested the 2.5k? Surely your son is uninsured, so they could only recover it through small claims court? But your son is under 18, so I'm not sure this applies?
He recieved a letter from the insurance company the week before christmas requesting his insurance details. He replied stating what happened and that he was 16 years of age and unforuntatly uninsured.
He recieved a second letter on friday, requesting a cheque for 2.5K as he is uninsured and has to settle personally. They only included reciepts for all the repairs, time, hire car up to this figure.
The police do understand the circumstances so are trying to be lenient especially seeing he has never been in any form of trouble before. They where great with him in fact completely staying away until he came out of hospital.
A nice local farmer allows a few of them to ride on a bit of wooded land which he has little use for at the back of his farm. The police are prosecuting him for, Driving Uninsured, without license with no MOT on public roads. He is accepting anything the police/court decides as he knows he was in the wrong. The officer looking over his case said as she knows the circumstances around the case, she is advising the prosecutor to settle out of court with points/fine. But did say as he was badly hurt the prosecutor may take it more seriously.
The officer speaks with forked tongue - there is no way of dealing with this outside points/fine if the case is prosecuted. They are strict liability offences.
However, he has a defence of duress as he feared for his safety and a good solicitor could argue the tax/MoT charges under exempt vehicle status anyway; I wouldn't encourage him to roll over just yet
VERA 1994 Schedule 2.21
Vehicles used for short journeys between different parts of person’s land
21 Where an applicant for a vehicle licence for a vehicle satisfies the Secretary of State that the vehicle is intended to be used on public roads—
(a) only in passing from land in his occupation to other land in his occupation, and
(b) for distances not exceeding an aggregate of six miles in any calendar week,
the Secretary of State may, with the consent of the Treasury, declare that the vehicle is an exempt vehicle when it is being used on public roads as mentioned in paragraphs (a) and (b).
I'd be thinking of writing to the insurance company and to inform them that no money will be forthcoming until the police investigation is completed.
Won't wash. The criminal case has nothing to do with the cause of the collision. They are technical matters - VED, MoT, licence, insurance. Presumably the bike has been seized under S.165
If you end up having to pay I'd be looking at not settling the hire car charge. Hiring another Jag is a bit excessive.
Why?
The Jag driver is not at fault, he is entitled to be placed into the same position as if the collision had not occurred.
Last time somebody damaged my Jeep, I had a VW Touraeg for a week on hire at a cost of £300/day.
AFAIK, as the bike rider was uninsured, the jag driver can claim from the Motor Insurers Bureau uninsured driver agreement.
Well why doesn't the OP hand over £2.5k right now?
I'm trying to help and there could be room for leverage with the hiring of a car.
Won't wash. The criminal case has nothing to do with the cause of the collision. They are technical matters - VED, MoT, licence, insurance. Presumably the bike has been seized under S.165
We're just stalling for time at this stage. This is a civil case - the parents could walk away. It's the insurance companies job to try and get back the money they've paid out already and they've got the MIB for that.
If the police are accepting that he was chased and afraid for his safety (whether or not they still prosecute your brother), are they taking any action against the gang?
The reason for asking that is, if your brother does end up being sued by the insurance company he'd be completely within his rights to sue the people chasing him for the loss which they caused. If the car owner saw what was happened and told the police then there's a clear chain of causality with an independent witness.
Of course, the chance of actually collecting anything off them is probably zero, but it's worth keeping the possibility in mind if it gets that far.
Nothing I post should be taken as legal advice. It is offered as an opinion only.
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Can you sue a minor? More to the point would it be worth it? I can see why an insurance company is going through the motions to recover their costs but all they'll get is a ccj against the lad. Assuming he's unable to pay no-one will be any better off.
You cannot sue a minor but you can sue his parents in his stead.
I agree regarding the hire charges - why should the jag owner be penalised because his car got damaged through no fault of his own.
With regard to the criminal case I would please mitigation of being pursued and fearing for own safety, if there are witnesses this may carry some weight.
With regards to the insurer its difficult to know how to proceed. They may decide to issue against the family for the money, but until they take action there is no point on speculating.
Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.
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Insurers seem to be making these claims against individuals more and more. As the boy hasn't been convicted yet I don't see any basis for the claim - they are just chancing it at the moment. the statement from the Jag driver seems to be significant. the boy was in great fear and was being pursued and physically attacked. get the motoring charges quashed using this and what basis can the insurance company have. If parents have legal cover on their policy they should use it (as being held liable for the child). and expect to see more more and more of these cost claim backs from insurers. seems they don't want to suffer ANY losses.
The legal position has little to do with the damage to the jag.
There is no doubt that the boy damaged the car. whether he committed an offence or not the car was damaged by him and he is liable (or his parents are whichever)
Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.
If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.
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[COLOR=red]Nat West Charges £1056 [B]WON[/B][/COLOR]
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the damage was not vandalism and not deliberate. the situation was forced upon him while he was under attack from by people perpetrating criminal acts. any claim should be against them..
He was the driver, of a vehicle, which was in collision with the jaguar.
ergo his liability.
If he was in fear then he had the option of dumping the bike and running. there was no real need for him to ride the bike on the road, and as it turns out he was probably far more badly injured by doing so than if he had been caught by the gang.
He made a choice - albeit in the heat of the moment but he still had other options and his choice was possibly not the best way to go.
I am not condemning him for his choice, who hasnt made a bad choice , and in his position I have no doubt I would probably made the same choice, but it was a choice all the same.
I doubt any court would completely exonerate him of blame as he had other options than the course of action he took open to him.
Opinions are offered in good faith based upon personal experience and research. Before making any irreversible decisions the opinion of a qualified, registered and insured legal professional should be sought.
If my advice or information has assisted you in any way - please click my scales.
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have to disagree - the direct cause was the hooligans forcing him onto the road. Say a huge oncoming lorry suddenly bears down on you at speed (driver passed out or some such) and you have to take avoiding action (to avoid being crushed etc) and as a consequence hit the parked cars that line the road. I take it you will be happy to admit full liability for the damage to the parked car ? whether it was a 200 pound wreck or a jaguar or a rolls royce. after all you were driving. there is more to accidents than who is behind the wheel (or handlebars).
16 Year old's Liability?
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Originally Posted by brownjl
Nothing I post should be taken as legal advice. It is offered as an opinion only.
