Thread: CCTV PCN issued while i was parked in a bay with free parking on weekends.

I may have been off by a few inches leaving the rear of my car on double yellow lines.

I assume the photo was taken by the camera in your first picture, which if you were inside the bay would show the tree. Even assuming the tree is literally just out of shot, I would think you were overhanging the DYL by at least 2ft and maybe more. Sadly there is no parking on the DYL at any time.

When you say "may have been off by a few inches" are you referring to your back wheel been past the bay? If you are then Michael Browne would be correct as the pcn would be issued for "any part of your vehicle" being past the bay. i.e. if you wheel is over the line then your rear bumper would be a couple of feet past the bay.

Can you confirm that at the road junction end the bay had double end markings?
If it were possible, can you get some more pics showing both the end of bay markings clearly.
This is important as the parking bay could be non compliant.
Whilst you are at it just make a check of more parking bays in the area for the same fault, cos were thes one duffen many more will be found.

Maybe some good news, after an hour of comparing and contrasting, I think the P and D sign in your picture is non compliant.
In that is lifted from a drawing by Fred Quimby a well know cartoonist from Bugs Bunny.
In my view this sign should be a ;

Dept for Transport 661.2A
title PAY AND DISPLAY PARKING
(variants)
issued 28.09.04.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/...king4s4395.pdf

Can any one concur that this sign is non compliant when compared to the one in the link.

You have got the wrong end of the stick, if this bay has double end markings, and it recons to be a P1028.4 parking bay, then it should just have one set of lines at either end, eg its non compliant.
If this Parking bay is a P1032 bay then this bay needs double end markings, with no broken lines.
Question Was the parking bay divided up into single spaces with no broken line down the outside?
From you pic 2 it has broken white lines down the side therefore if it has double end markings, it is not compiant with the drawing mentioned above.
Now we may have sign that non compliant, the bay markings non compliant, you only need the TRO
an thas gotten yer sen an at trick ol lad.( Barnsley speak for thas won.)
Just get some pics to confirm what I have just said please.

The pictures shows nothing, doesn't it?! Any amount of the car dangling over the yellow lines is classed as being on the lines, but if it's very small you might be getting into de minimis - the amount is so small it's not worthy of the law's attention.

I don't like "do not pass this onto the driver". Fetters your ability to appeal because the driver is allowed to look at the pcn and respond to it on your behalf. Their false information implies you can't get the driver involved.

Originally Posted by 68904

You have got the wrong end of the stick, if this bay has double end markings, and it recons to be a P1028.4 parking bay, then it should just have one set of lines at either end, eg its non compliant.
If this Parking bay is a P1032 bay then this bay needs double end markings, with no broken lines.
Question Was the parking bay divided up into single spaces with no broken line down the outside?
From you pic 2 it has broken white lines down the side therefore if it has double end markings, it is not compiant with the drawing mentioned above.
Now we may have sign that non compliant, the bay markings non compliant, you only need the TRO
an thas gotten yer sen an at trick ol lad.( Barnsley speak for thas won.)
Just get some pics to confirm what I have just said please.

Sorry im lost

But here's a pic if it helps

Originally Posted by Al27

The pictures shows nothing, doesn't it?! Any amount of the car dangling over the yellow lines is classed as being on the lines, but if it's very small you might be getting into de minimis - the amount is so small it's not worthy of the law's attention.

Your right, the image on the pcn shows only the car and the number plate and a bonnet of another car parked behind me.

Though my cars rear end may have been parked on the DYL, but judging from the space from the junction kerb to the marked bay in the above pictures and the car parked behind mine would it not be fair to say i was out a little?

Could i not appeal on that ground.?

The parking bay is non compliant as the bay has double end markings, instead on a single marking line.
In the enclosed link it shows the official drawing of a
P1028.4 parking bay.
You need to look at the end markings of sheet 2 0f 2, and compare that drawing with your picture.
You will see that the drawing of the bay has single lines, where as your bay has double lines That makes the parking bay where you got the ticket un lawful.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/...bay2sheets.pdf

Also the parking sign is non compliant as well so the counicl are stuffed.
We just need someone else to concur with my findings and take if from that point.

Originally Posted by 68904

The parking bay is non compliant as the bay has double end markings, instead on a single marking line.
In the enclosed link it shows the official drawing of a
P1028.4 parking bay.
You need to look at the end markings of sheet 2 0f 2, and compare that drawing with your picture.
You will see that the drawing of the bay has single lines, where as your bay has double lines That makes the parking bay where you got the ticket un lawful.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/...bay2sheets.pdf

Also the parking sign is non compliant as well so the counicl are stuffed.
We just need someone else to concur with my findings and take if from that point.

Sorry i think i may have confused you. They issued me a pcn for having parked my cars rear end just a little over the DYL, but was parked in a bay which was free on that day.

But thank you so much.

You give up too easy, get all the photographic evidence and look at it. Shown in one of you pics is a camera on a pole near to the bus lane.
How can that camera see through a wall onto the floor?
These Councils are con merchants and you are falling for it hook line and sinker.
You have to use every tool in the box to get what you are after. The bay is naff, the sign is crap, and if you walk round that area you will see more crap bays and crap signs, they know they are duff but still rob folk of their brass.
Challenge on everthing you can leave no stone unturned.
Do a survey and see how many crap signs and lines there are goto the press make a stink, but do not roll over and throw your arms in the air and throw the towel in.
Then if you can find enough non compliant lines and sign get the District Auditor in and make a complaint, about the council stealing money every time a ticket is issued.
Thas asked for advice na then thas got sum wots tha barna do wi it?

Just as an example regarding signs, if you look at the bus lane signs, (your pic 2.)on the bottom panel which is a S961 time plate sign, it shows a restriction from

Mon - Fri
7am - 10am
4pm - 7pm

The bottom line should read 4 - 7pm.

If this council can make such a simple error, which could cost the council £1000's, what else is there lurking in that area thats not right?
I know this is trivial, but what you did is the same, and whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

compare and contrast.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/...owbusl4206.pdf

Thanks 68904,

How would i start a write up with regards to the pcn i received and the information you have found?

Im totally useless with these kind of things and is my first ever parking ticket

Can anyone help me on this one? or do i just cough up?

Thanks

If the first picture is the one they intend to present, I fail to see how they can argue you are beyond a DYL that is not shown!