Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I need help! In 2007, me & my daughter had to leave our old home when my ex partner wouldn't leave us alone. We left our home with literally just the clothes on our backs one morning after he broke in & assaulted me and we ended up in a refuge in a different area of the country. We were in the refuge about 6 months and then got rehoused.Then in september 08, i got a letter from a bailiffs company saying they had a liability order for unpaid council tax on my previous address and that they wanted immediate payment in full, or else they would come and remove goods. I wrote to them and to the council involved to explain why i had left my old home and also that, as a single parent & student, I could not pay the amount in full, but offered the bailiffs £15 per month. I asked the council to accept the debt back, but they refused, saying they would only do that in extenuating circumstances, which mine were not! However, they did ask me to send a statement of income/expenditure, which i did. The bailiffs company accepted the £15 per month and I have paid that religiously ever since, by postal order and using registered post. I have moved again, and informed the bailiffs of my new address, but not the council. I didn't think I needed to, as they made it quite clear I was to deal with the bailiffs, not them. Then, just after christmas, i had a letter, dated 18th december 2008, from the old council, saying that after further enquiries they have traced me to my new address, and demanding that I repay a housing benefit overpayment of £125 within fourteen days, or they would take recovery action. I didn't get the letter until 30th December, 12 days after the council wrote it, and there was no explanation of how the overpayment occurred. I wrote back to them asking for an explanation - dates & amounts etc. I'm not refusing to pay it, but they already have details of my income etc, so the council know I can't afford a one off payment! They also know I am a single parent, and to give me 14 days notice at christmas really caused me a lot of stress. I've been having nightmares about it and waking up with my heart pounding. I was getting part HB at my previous address as I only worked part time, and I accept that an overpayment could 've occurred, cos phoning the council to tell them I was moving out wasn't on my list of priorities the day I left but they were told within 3 days of us leaving, my case worker at the refuge phoned them. I'm really upset by their attitude, and also really worried that bailiffs will turn up at my house again. My daughter and I are starting to get back on our feet now, and having lost everything once, I don't want to risk baliffs coming and taking our things. It's been a week since I wrote back to the council and I haven't heard anything, despite emailing them too. This is upsetting me so much and I don't know what to do. I'm a bit angry that the council can get away with treating people like this despite knowing the circumstances. Is there anything I can do?
Hi minimum and welcome to the forums. There is a lot to get through in your post and someone with a much wiser head than mine will no doubt get to grips with it. In the meantime, please try to stay calm. Your post raises several questions - one of which is were your council tax payments up to date when you left in 2007? Let's just deal with it a bit at a time and I am sure you will get all the help you need.
Hi Trilby. Yes my CTAX was up to date when I left, but the council said that I left without giving them a forwarding address and it meant that ctax was chargeable for that entire financial year as I defaulted on the instalments. I know they're going to say something similar about the Housing benefit overpayment. They denied ever getting the phone call from my support worker too.
Thanks minimum, so was anyone living in the property when you left? Is it rented accommodation or owned by you and your ex-partner? Where no-one is resident in the property, the owner is liable.
Are you still able to contact your support worker? He/she will (or should) have a record of the call.
Contact your local CAB as soon as possible. They should be able to get the 'bailiffs' to stop pestering you while you get things sorted out.
Next one - you said you had a letter from the bailiffs. Were they actually bailiffs or a Debt Recovery lowlife? I can't see any reference to a court order in your post, so assume there hasn't been one. It is unfortunate that you have been paying the 'bailiffs' as the courts view that as an admission of liability. At this time, it is not clear that you were actually liable for a full year's council tax at the full rate.
Keep going - we'll get there. I'm hoping that someone with a lot of knowledge of these things will jump in here to give better advice.
I think in your circumstances the council are being entirely unreasonable in trying to collect either the council tax or any overpaid housing benefit. I also think you really need someone to act as advocate for you, not because I think you're not capable of doing it yourself but just because the council are more likely to take notice of someone 'official' and leave you alone.
Does your new council have a welfare officer or are you still in contact with a case worker? If not, I would suggest an urgent appointment with Citizen's Advice.
RMW
I am not an expert in law, finance or any related field, I just read a lot. Any advice is based solely on what I've read so please don't take it as gospel without checking it out yourself.
I prefer not to give advice by PM. If you want me to look at something, send me a link to your thread, and if I can help I'll reply on there.
Hi Minimum,
Sorry to read of your situation.
From what i can work out from your first post, I think you are liable for all the charges but you should write a very strongly worded complaint to the council in question. They should have procedures in place to deal with such a situation as this where you had enough on your plate without having to think about the problems associated with moving from one address to another.
In your complaint, you need to put a chronology of events so they get the full picture of why you never informed them of the move.
This bit is a long shot but you could try it anyway. Ask them if they will do a Housing/council tax overlap claim for you but backdate it to the day you moved. This scheme was brought in a few years ago where if you moved from say, a private landlord to a council house but the council wanted you to take immediate possession, you would be liable for up to four weeks rent and council tax for the previous property. the overlap scheme helped tenants so they wouldn't be out of pocket but like I say it's a long shot.
If the council refuse to deal with your complaint come back here as I have more tricks up my sleeve.
If possible can you tell us which council it was.
fox
If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.
Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any advice given, you should see a qualified solicitor
Thanks everyone.Trilby- I rented the property, a sole tenant,so it was empty after i left. My support worker has left the refuge now but i can phone and see if my file is still around. The bailiffs are a certificated company, but i don't want to say who they are cos it might give clues as to my location, and you never know who might read this. I'm going to go to CAB. Thanks again, it means a lot to be able to talk about this. x
Fully understand your concern. Fox and Mad are both correct and whilst we all think you are fully competent enough to handle this yourself, there are people out there who are PAID to help people like yourself. Use them! Being a certificated company doesn't actually mean much - are they national or local?
Who were you renting from? Sorry, being a bit like a dog with a bone, but the more info we have, the better the advice will be.
Trilby- It was a privately rented. I accept that I'm liable and it's not that i refuse to pay, i have been paying the instalments to the bailiffs cos the council refused to take the debt back, and now the council have demanded full payment of the housing benefit overpayment, and they know i can't afford it! I don't really want to say what council it is though, Fox, I hope you understand. I'm going to get started on a complaint letter though while I wait to be able to see someone at CAB. Thanks so much, i really do appreciate it.
Minimum, I totally understand your wish to be careful considering your circumstances so what to do?
If they refuse to handle your complaint, they should allow you to take it to a stage two complaint. I've never done that as I always bypassed that stage and written directly to the chief executive. The council will have it's own website so you could check it out and find out who the chief exec is.
If after you have exhausted that route with no joy the Local Government Ombudsman will be the last route to go. The LGO have teeth and use them, regularly.
I don't know if this applies to you but a lot of people see councils as being to big to fight. Wrong! They have to follow the rules as much as we do, even moreso when a vulnerable person is involved as you most undoubtably are.
If you can get WRITTEN confirmation from the refuge of the call to the council, that will go a long way to helping your case.
Good luck and if you need support (moral or other) just pop back here.
fox
If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.
Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any advice given, you should see a qualified solicitor
Eminently sensible everyone. There are obviously two different issues here - one is the council tax with the Debt Recovery people and the second is with the council on the benefit overpayment. When you get to see CAB, make sure they deal with it as two separate issues so that things don't get foggy.
Hi everyone. Just a quick update. I contacted the Chief Exec of the Council concerned, they have agreed to take the Ctax debt back from the bailiffs and add the outstanding balance to the Housing benefit overpayment. I can pay it all off at £15 per month by direct debit. I feel much better about the whole situation now. Thanks for all your advice.
That is brilliant. I'm so happy for you. Now it's time to get on with your new life. My very best wishes to you.
good luck
fox
If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.
Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any advice given, you should see a qualified solicitor
Housing benefit overpayment- help!
company saying they had a liability order for unpaid council tax on my previous address and that they wanted immediate payment in full, or else they would come and remove goods. I wrote to them and to the council involved to explain why i had left my old home and also that, as a single parent & student, I could not pay the amount in full, but offered the bailiffs
However, they did ask me to send a statement of income/expenditure, which i did. The bailiffs
I was getting part HB at my previous address as I only worked part time, and I accept that an overpayment could 've occurred, cos phoning the council to tell them I was moving out wasn't on my list of priorities the day I left but they were told within 3 days of us leaving, my case worker at the refuge phoned them. I'm really upset by their attitude, and also really worried that bailiffs will turn up at my house again. My daughter and I are starting to get back on our feet now, and having lost everything once, I don't want to risk baliffs coming and taking our things. It's been a week since I wrote back to the council and I haven't heard anything, despite emailing them too. This is upsetting me so much and I don't know what to do. I'm a bit angry that the council can get away with treating people like this despite knowing the circumstances. Is there anything I can do?
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Re: Housing benefit overpayment- help!
