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This loan was taken out in 2002 and was repaid in 2007.
I would like to work out if the APR is correct but have fallen at the first step of the Dualcalc programme steven4064 has linked to in the following post. I simply cant work out what figure needs to go where
I would also like to know if this would come under the multiple agreement scenario in the same thread.
If someone could help please. I thank you.
The figures are:
A = £12,400.00 - Advance
B = 4, 735.80 - Credit care
C = Blank
D = £17,135.80 - Amount of Credit (A+B+C)
E = 6,305.00 - Charge for Credit
F = £23,440.00 - Total amount payable(D+E)
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
I also believe this PPI was mis sold in that BOS Creditcare was not optional. The paperwork came ready typed with the figure included. OH was at the time, semi retired working less than 16 hours a week. He was also registered disabled. The box on the right hand side at the top was already pre ticked.
It does say however, in a box below the particular of loan
"You are applying for the following additional insurance cover ?
The signature box on the right hand side has nothing to do with the loan or PPI. It is for a preference account key card (credit card) which was apparently an offer linked to the loan.
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
I've run your figures through DualCalc - loan of £17,135.80 payable as 60 installments of £390.68 give a TCC of £6305.00 and an APR of 13.9%.
So I would say that the agreement is completly unenforceable for two reasons:
1. it is within the scope of s18 and is a mupliple agreement that should be treated as 2 seperate agreements, which it is not. Therefore it does not have all the prescribed terms (in particular the monthly repayment should be broken down into 2 bits representing the repayment of the main laon and the insurance ('credit care' is a fancy name for PPI)
2. one of the prescribed terms it does have, namely the APR, is incorrect
The £141 is irrelevant as it is added onto the first payment - it doesn't enter into the calculations.
Steven
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As this has now been repaid, can I ask for some of it back If so, do I ask MBNA? Or do I go direct to fos ? BTW, sorry, I have corrected the figure you have highlighted,that was poor proof reading on my part
Pompey, the last payment was made in June 2007
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
I don’t think APR is a prescribed term with regards to s127 (3)
The prescribed term says 'interest rate' but APR is the only one quoted (and it is wrong)
Steven
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My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
I understand - but the only prescribed terms required in respect of enforceability are ‘amount of credit’ and ‘Repayments’ - APR is not (in this instance) a prescribed term with regards to s127 (3)
I do agree to it being a multiple agreement with regards to s18 and would have been potentially unenforceable – because the loan has been paid off a claim would have to be made based on restitution.
I understand - but the only prescribed terms required in respect of enforceability are ‘amount of credit’ and ‘Repayments’ - APR is not (in this instance) a prescribed term with regards to s127 (3)
I do agree to it being a multiple agreement with regards to s18 and would have been potentially unenforceable – because the loan has been paid off a claim would have to be made based on restitution.
so how would I proceed with this please
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
I understand - but the only prescribed terms required in respect of enforceability are ‘amount of credit’ and ‘Repayments’ - APR is not (in this instance) a prescribed term with regards to s127 (3)
No - schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 also lists "A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit
to be provided under the agreement" as a prescribed term. It doesn't specify the form but schedule 7 says that an APR must not fall short of the correct value by more than 0.1% nor exceeed it by more than 1.0% - at least for running-account credit.
I think the same rule for fixed sum credit is given somewhere else.
Steven
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GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
No - schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 also lists "A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit
to be provided under the agreement" as a prescribed term.
This only applies to fixed sum credit falling within the exceptions in paragraph 9(a) to (c) of Schedule 1.
The point I am making is that APR or rate of interest (on this agreement) being stated incorrectly or missing would not have an impact on enforceability under s127 (3).
Originally Posted by citizenB
so how would I proceed with this please
Tricky one that – much easier to put the multiple agreement argument forward as a defence to a claim.
Why don’t you post up the basic argument you would put forward and see if you get any feedback.
This only applies to fixed sum credit falling within the exceptions in paragraph 9(a) to (c) of Schedule 1.
Because the agreements not so excepted have to have the rate of interest under schedule 1 para 9
Steven
Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here
Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
Thank you so much to steven and atwozee for contributing to my thread, please keep your thoughts coming.
I am just going to get stuck into pt's thread on multiple agreements. Once I understand that fully, I will pop my thoughts as to how to proceed for consideration.
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
Sorry Steven – we will have to disagree on this one.
CB’s agreement doesn’t fall within the exceptions detailed in para9 (a) to (c) (unless I am mistaken) therefore there is no requirement (as far as schedule 6 is concerned) for a prescribed term ‘Rate of interest’ or ‘APR’
There is a requirement under schedule 1 for these terms but if they are missing (or mis-stated) it would only make the agreement improperly executed and not automatically unenforceable.
However, I am sure we would all be interested in seeing the multiple agreement argument put before a court.
Right, so far as I understand this, please correct if I am wrong.
I could claim restitution ie all monies paid APART from the principal sum of £12,400.00
because:
The APR is incorrect and outside the tolerance allowed by the OFT ?
The PPI should have been shown separately with it's own little signature box, and itemised payments/APR. I am assuming that the sum shown in the list is the cash price for the policy had it been purchased separately ?
It is a multi agreement as per s18 inasmuch as part of the total sum is restricted use ie for PPI repayment ?
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
atwozee - I think we can actually agree here for the following reason -
Because this 'agreement' is actually two agreements (s18 ) which each should have the monthly repayments. As it only has a lumped repayment both the agreements are minus this particular prescribed term and therefore fall within the exception in schedule 1 para 9:
9 Agreements for fixed-sum credit except agreements--
(a) which do not specify either the intervals between repayments or the amounts of repayments or both the intervals and the amounts;
In these cases, APR thus becomes a prescibed term in schedul 6 and it is wrong
Steven
Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here
Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
MBNA/BOS - PPI / multiple agreements
is 12.8%
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Originally Posted by steven4064
