Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
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    Default Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    First post here, so hello everyone!

    I have scoured the internet for information on the problem I have and seem to be getting conflicting information, so I thought I has best pick some knowledgable brains!

    I bought a computer product from an ebay trader though a "buy it now", and paid by paypal. Now when I recieved the product (which incidently took ages, seller lied about dispatch etc), it was a different (inferior) specification to what was advertised on the auctionicon page.

    I sent an email outlining the problem to the seller, which was ignored, then another email with the same content in. This was ignored again, and I sent another email telling the seller that I believed I had been defrauded and that I would take any steps necessary to get my money back.

    The seller finally responded with no appology etc, but a mere "You can return the item for a refund" and "it was a listing error".

    I sent an email back saying that I was within my rights to ask for a refund before sending out to him, and the seller responded that I am not within my rights to ask for refund before sending, and that I should read the Distance Selling Act (2000).

    This is very frustrating as I cannot afford to have this money tied up in product, but I do not want to take the risk of returning it in case he claims he hasn't recieved it. He has quite a few negative feedbacks for slow delivery, wrong product etc, and one buyer also stated that the seller had claimed they hadn't recieved the product back when it had been sent to them.

    As the seller has messed me about so much and is clearly a fraudster who doesn't care about customer service, I really do not want to send the product back to him.

    I wouldn't mind putting a small claimsicon claim against him, however I am not sure of a proper address for him (he has an address for writing letters to on his ebay page, but the product came from a totally different area of the country!), plus I don't know whether I can get the inital cost of the claim back from him either (conflicting information everywhere I read).

    If anyone has any suggestions or information, it would be most gratefully recieved as i'm getting quite stressed by the whole issue!



    Thank you for your time,


    SB

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    How did you pay? Credit card via paypalicon?

    DSR is on your side, by the way. ;-)

    Did you have to sign for the item when it was delivered to you?

    How long ago was the transaction?

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Thank you for the response noomill060

    I paid via paypalicon, but the normal way where paypal takes the money from your bank account.

    My friend signed for it (was sent recorded) as I was out at the time.

    I bought the product on the 5th December 2008, I recieved it on the 22nd December.

    The day which I recieved it, I sent him the first email complaining that it was a different lower spec product. He didn't respond, so I sent another email on the 27th December. Still no response, so sent him a message stating I will take any step to get my money back on 2nd January 2009 (to which he responded the very next day).

    DSR is on my side in what way? Does he have to send the refund before I send it back? If this is the case, what happens if he just refuses to refund?

    These con artists can make life so frustrating!


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    If he was a business seller then DSRs apply as it was bought on a fixed price BIN. You then don't have to send it back for your refund UNLESS he has a returns policy listed which says you do - there will usually be a timescale too.

    In reality, you'll be safer putting in a claim through paypalicon. You will have to send the item back by recorded delivery at your expense but you are guaranteed your money back for the price you paid and the original p&p. Go into your Paypal account and raise a dispute for Significantly Not As Described and follow the process through. Paypal will then refund you and take the money from him.


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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    paypalicon will file in your favour, they even do it when a seller is in the right, trust me! However they will only refund if you open a dispute with them and they will stipulate to you that you must post the item back and send them (paypal) proof of postage within 10 days. Send it recorded delivery. Paypal will only refund the cost of the item, though - NOT postage costs.


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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Thanks for the info, i'm confused about the returns policy bit. The page I bought from was here:

    KINGSTON HYPERX PC8500 DDR2 1066 4GB 2 x 2GB RAM MEMORY on eBay, also, Memory, Desktop PC Components, Computing (end time 16-Dec-08 23:13:58 GMT)


    Regarding paypalicon, what happens if the guy claims I send him a paperweight back, even though I send the original product back? That is what i'm worried about because his feedback indicates he has done this before...



    Thanks again for the input guys, much appreciated


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    If you send it recorded delivery it's up to him to check the package before he signs for it

    Additionally, a seller can no longer leave negative feedback on a buyers profile

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    I tend to agree with the others.

    Start a SNAD complaint with paypalicon.

    It isnt going to cost much to get it back to the seller, just make sure you send it by Recorded Delivery, to the address Paypal tell you to.

    If you want to make life difficult for him, report him to his local trading standards and tax office.


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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    And leave him neg feedback NOW- he cant retaliate by leaving a neg for a seller.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    I don't use ebay but one or two thoughts come to mind.

    The negative feedback was there before you bought, I've just looked at it and it would certainly put me off trading with the seller.

    It might well have been a listing error and he has offered you a refund.

    If the product had been as described your money would have been tied up in it.

    Return it with proof of delivery, leave your own negative feedback for the next purchaser to ignore.

    Messing you about and lack of customer service skills do not make the seller a conman or fraudster, a chump maybe, but not a conman or fraudster.

    If you really do not want to send the memory back to him why should he give you a refund. Maybe he has experienced people saying they have returned an item and he gave a refund, but they kept the item. Aka free memory................... .

    paypalicon is your friend on this one.

    Counsel for the defense, that's all.

    Hammy

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    There is no requirement or stipulation in the DSRs that an item has to be received or even sent before a refund is issued. his is confirmed by the OFT.
    All that is required is a notice of cancellation as er the DSRs. On receipt of such, they must issue a refund asap and in any case within 30 days of receipt of the notification.

    If they believe that you are diddling them, then that is a separate course of action independant of your rights.

    I would write to them reminding them of such, stating that your correspondance is not a form of negotiation.


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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy1962 View Post
    I don't use ebay but one or two thoughts come to mind.

    The negative feedback was there before you bought, I've just looked at it and it would certainly put me off trading with the seller.

    It might well have been a listing error and he has offered you a refund.

    If the product had been as described your money would have been tied up in it.

    Return it with proof of delivery, leave your own negative feedback for the next purchaser to ignore.

    Messing you about and lack of customer service skills do not make the seller a conman or fraudster, a chump maybe, but not a conman or fraudster.

    If you really do not want to send the memory back to him why should he give you a refund. Maybe he has experienced people saying they have returned an item and he gave a refund, but they kept the item. Aka free memory................... .

    paypalicon is your friend on this one.

    Counsel for the defense, that's all.

    Hammy
    Your post is quite irritating in that you make assumptions here.

    The proportion of negative feedback was low, so I went for it. I thought that as he is obviously a business seller I would be ok.

    Yes my money would be tied up in it if it was as described, but that would have been fine as I could then use it and not have to buy some different ram!!!

    He is a fraud as he sent me an email saying there was a mistake on the listing, this cl7 ram that was sent to me is much cheaper (about 40), yet the other people who bought it and left postive feedback have not been informed (those people obviously don't know much about the proper specifications of ram). He has been happy to [problem] them though.

    I put trust in him and sent my money first, why shouldnt I ask him to send my money back first then send his ram back? He is the one with dodgy feedback and previous track record that indicates he lies.


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder Hammy1962 Novitiate Hammy1962 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Apologies if I irritated you.

    What assumptions did I make?

    I would question whether you paid the seller first. On a technically maybe, ie, you paid for it, and then they sent it out to you. This isn't even very relevant.

    The seller is entitled to the goods back as much as you are entitled to your refund, which he has offered and he has not denied.

    I was only trying to give another point of view, I can't be responsible for your feelings if you disagree with my point of view.

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    I put trust in him and sent my money first, why shouldnt I ask him to send my money back first then send his ram back?
    Under DSRs he should refund within 30 days and the refund should not depend on the return of the goods first. Do you believe he is going to abide by this? The way to guarantee getting your money back is to go through a paypalicon dispute. It is then Paypal who refund you and get the money back from him.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy1962 View Post
    Apologies if I irritated you.

    What assumptions did I make?

    I would question whether you paid the seller first. On a technically maybe, ie, you paid for it, and then they sent it out to you. This isn't even very relevant.

    The seller is entitled to the goods back as much as you are entitled to your refund, which he has offered and he has not denied.

    I was only trying to give another point of view, I can't be responsible for your feelings if you disagree with my point of view.

    Hammy


    I have answered your assumptions in my post, read it. e.g:

    You said:

    "Messing you about and lack of customer service skills do not make the seller a conman or fraudster, a chump maybe, but not a conman or fraudster"

    The truth is that he is a conman as he has told me via email that there was a mistake on the listing and what was sent out was lower spec (and therefore much cheaper product) than advertised. Most people just buy the product and take no notice of the deeper specifications, so quite a few people were just happy that they got the product, the didn't realise that they have paid for a premium (so to speak) product, and have recieved a much cheaper version. No one would have paid 57 for if they knew it was worth only 40 at a push. The seller only admitted it to me after sending him many emails, so yes he is a fraudster. Plus he hasn't contacted the rest of the customers to offer them a refund for the much cheaper product sent out, he has just happily profited from their lack of knowledge. Bad customer service my eye.


    Anyway I must say that there really is no need for you to be deliberately arguementative here, I only posted because of my concerns with this fraudster!

    How can you question if I paid the seller first? That is just ridiculous. I did pay him first, no doubt about it! I paid him via paypalicon and he sent it! How on earth can you say its not relevant? You are the one that brought it up here:

    "If you really do not want to send the memory back to him why should he give you a refund. Maybe he has experienced people saying they have returned an item and he gave a refund, but they kept the item. Aka free memory"

    What the issue I was asking about was TRUST. I trusted him to send it out after I had paid, why should I be the one with all the risk? Hence it is reasonable for me to ask for my money back before I post it back. Plus I don't trust that he will send my postage costs back, another reason why I wanted the money first so I could refuse to sent the product back until I recieved all costs. Before you start arguing that I shouldn't get postage costs back, I would like to point out that how just would that be for me to pay for someone wasting my time, and attempting to [problem] me?

    You say you have just been trying to give another point of view here, but you appear to just want to argue with me for no apparent reason.

    Think I will go the paypal dispute route as advised by other members


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder Hammy1962 Novitiate Hammy1962 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Great isn't it, I post with another point of view, that you clearly dis-agree with, granted, and I get called argumentative.

    I even apologised for irritating you...................... ..........

    I also said paypalicon was your friend, as also advised by other members. I'm sorry if that description was a little too subtle.

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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    You didn't post with another point of view, you set about arguing against me! e.g.


    "The negative feedback was there before you bought, I've just looked at it and it would certainly put me off trading with the seller"

    Why was that relevant to me? Does that mean just because he had a few negatives out of thousands of positives and you wouldn't have bought from him, that he had the right to swindle me???


    Then when you appologise you have to chip in a last sarcastic comment:

    "I can't be responsible for your feelings if you disagree with my point of view", "I'm sorry if that description was a little too subtle"


    I posted asking for advice, not for someone to shoot me down and defend a con artist :-|


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    I have had similar experiences on ebay before both as a seller and a buyer.
    paypalicon have always favoured with the buyer.
    Open the dispute and escalate it to claim straight away. You will have to return the item first, be sure to do so via recorded delivery and provide the tracking info to paypal. You will eventually get your money back time depending on whether the seller co-operates or not.

    Good luck, let us know how you get on.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Thanks Michelle, may I ask is there a reason for escalating to a claim straight away?


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Do I have to return item to seller before refund? (Ebay) Feedback indicates he will lie about recieving it back!

    Opening a dispute is like a console for yourself and the seller to try and come to an agreement, Considering the above facts and his previous feedback it is very unlikely he is going to come to a mutural agreement with you. So to save time i advise you just go ahead with a claim.



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