Thread: Underdog v LLoyds

SCuM are pretty easy to see off underdog. There are one or two threads with some good responses. Just yell when you need one

What exactly did the SCuM letter say ? A termination notice would normally be sent (if that is their intention) about 3 -4 weeks after the DN.

Is the Default notice correctly issued ?

Okey dokey, in that case you could possibly amend the following:

Dear ???

I refer to your letter of XX XX XXXX which was received today.

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to advise a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request(Consumer Credit Act, 1974); dated (Whenever) for which I have proof of receipt . I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you of their non compliance. Your client had until (put the 12+2 date in this bit) to comply with a legal request.

Should your client persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by Lloyds TSB under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

Yours faithfully

Hi underdog and cB,

Did you get your letter away to those empty heads ud?

I have a couple of good letters that have kept them at bay for a good while, if you need one?



N.P

Yes please! Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post in the open forums.

Sent CBs letter, but I have a feeling I will sending them many more over the coming weeks!

Underdog, you really need to sort your scanner out, so you can scan letters up and we can see what you have.

Did you send a letter, as described by citizenB?

Originally Posted by underdog13

Yes did send CitB's letter

Scanner is being tempermental at the moment, but won't it help Lloyds trolls to identify me if I post all their letters?

That`s why you edit out name, address, account numbers etc. Any identifying features, not that people are really bothered anymore.

So, I take it Lloyds TSB have not sent you a copy of your Agreement, but Their Solicitors are trying to mussle you? Correct?

Ok, give me a min, I have something nice to send them both

I need to dig it off the Server

Right,

I sent Lloyds this when they started giving me some static when I stopped paying them after they blanked my CCA request - Edit to suit your taste, you will need to change a few lines -

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER!

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx

Dear Morons,

RE: REQUEST FOR COPY OF CREDIT AGREEMENT

Further to your recent Default Notice dated 9th January and your letter dated 17th December 2007, the contents of which are noted, although, quite frankly I am astounded by its contents.

May I draw your attention to the first paragraph of your letter wherein you state "it would appear this account is currently a low priority to you". On the contrary it would appear that my request under Consumer Law is in fact a low priority to you, since you have taken the decision to totally ignore my letter dated 21st September 2007.

You should note that I have no intention whatsoever of contacting you by telephone to discuss this matter. I will only communicate with you in writing. You will not receive from me any "explanation" as you put it, regarding the activity on my account since I am still awaiting a response to my letter dated 21st September 2007 or your "explanation" as to why you are unable to respond fully to its contents.

I must advise you that any legal action you commence will be most vigorously defended, and I will show the court all correspondence in my possession of your blatant disregard for my rights as a consumer under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I note that to date you have still not complied with my request for a copy of the credit agreement for this alleged debt which you are pursuing me for.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated 21st September 2007.

My request remains outstanding and I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.
(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.


For an agreement to be properly executed it must contain certain terms and be signed by both debtor and creditor. The required terms are laid out in regulations (SI 1983/1553) and is covered by sections 60 and 61 Consumer Credit Act 1974

To clarify s61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1. Number of repayments;
2. Amount of repayments;
3. Frequency and timing of repayments;
4. Dates of repayments;
5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt, as it stands, is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection.
The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.


What I Require.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true copy of the original Application Form. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist.

No other correspondence will be accepted.

I trust this out lines the situation.

Regards


print your name - DO NOT SIGN!










How does that look?

I`ll dig something out to send to SC&M now.



N.P

Right, you`ll need to send Lloyds TSB that letter, your edited version of course. Also, send a copy of the SAME letter to SC&m with this small cover letter -



Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008 , the contents of which are noted

i must draw your attention to the letter that i have included which has been sent to your client Lloyds TSB. The account you are demanding payment on is subject to a formal dispute and i invite you to withdraw your frivolous threats of litigation forthwith until such time as the dispute is resolved. Failure to place this account on hold will result in the OFT being notified as to your debt collection practices,which would be in contravention of the OFT's guidelines on debt collection if you fail to oblige

I look forward to your response confirming that collection activities are suspended.


Regards

print your name - DO NOT SIGN.




Are they ok for you underdog?



N.P

Yep, that`s a termination of the card, but it depends if they actually have.

Have fun with the letters and stick to the game plan.

You have nothing else to say until they comply with your CCA request, which is still in play.

Remember, after the 12+2 days, you can stop paying them, if you still are. I haven`t paid them anything in over a year, and all`s been quiet for over a month now. It`s been to 3 DCA`s and SC&M twice.

Definately get your scanner problem sorted, so you can scan up anything they send back.

Paste an edited copy of your letter up before posting so we can check it out for you.

Oh, by the way, I DID use the Dear Morons too, LOL

Let them know you mean business and won`t be intimited by them or any other bunch of empty heads they send your way.

Ciao for now.

Regards



N.P