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Hi all
Once again I have a parking ticket from Denbighshire County Council. They really do not like me after I successfully got the last one overturned thanks to this forum.
This time the story is different. I parked in a council operated Pay & Display car park and paid for the full day to park, then cheerfully went off for the family day trip (Thomas the Tank again), confident I had done everything to avoid another ticket..
When I parked my car I just found an available space between two other cars at 10.23 am. Because of the way these cars were parked I was not parked within the parking bay, but neither were the other cars.
When I returned I had a ticket attached to my screen stating the reason was Parked beyond the bay markings. Code 86. The ticket was issued at 13.25pm
The other two cars had obviously left earlier and been replaced by people who had parked within the parking bays.
I sent a letter to Wales Penalty Processing Partnership (WPPP) explaining I parked in the available parking space and the ticket sold to me entitled me to park in any available space as part of the contract. I also pointed out the absence of signs in each bay stating I had to park inside the bay markings. Finally I explained I was forced to park in the space by other badly parked cars and there were no other available spaces.
Despite a clearly written letter of appeal it was rejected and a photograph of the car and how it was parked as well as a sign OUTSIDE the car park (at the entrance) stating Vehicles must park in lined bays. You can clearly see from the photograph the car to my left was parked inside the bay allocated to my car and I was parked next to it.
An NTO was issued on 04/12/2008. Naturally I intend to appeal and felt the grounbds for appeal should be each bay was not clearly marked stating cars should park in lined bays. Plus of course the Contract entitling me to park in any available space when I purchased a ticket.
Can anyone suggest anything else and maybe an example of wording I can use?
Nightmare, I just paid £30 to Edinburgh District Council for almost the same thing I had parked between two cars, paid my ticket then wandered off to hire my son a kilt. When I returned the two other cars had gone and left me parked about two inches outside the bay.
I appealed the ticket, but today received a letter from them saying 'by parking in this manner the driver was contributing to the problem of unruly parking' it is considered that the very existence of bay markings makes parking within them self evident.
Sent me a picture of the evidence pitch black picture with my number plate reflecting the light from the guys camera. (I would appeal again, but think they will have a better picture than the scan they sent me)
Paid the £30 on-line about two hours ago.
I do not want to give them £60.
Regards.
Scott.
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Hi Scott
I am sorry to hear you got fleeced by the car park pirates. It seems paying for a ticket is now not enough - you need to park perfectly in line now too. What next - a ticket because your wheels are not straight?
I have a copy of the pictures they intend to use as evidence but cannot find a way to attach them to the post. Any ideas on how to do this?
It is clear from their own photograph the car to the left has parked in such a way as to force me to park over the bay line. I doubt they have a case for defence but would appreciate a second, third and fourth opinion
Surely they would need to put a sign on each bay stating you must park inside the bay lines in order to be able to enforce this? Placing a sign at the entrance is not prominent enough for a driver to see it. At the worst this sign should be placed at the ticket booth so you are acknowledging it as part of the contract formed when the ticket is sold / purchased.
Looks like yet another wrestling match is coming up with Denbighshire Council over their parking enforcement Piracy.
The two cars I had parked between were both over the lines, I had 4 shots at getting in closer to the fence they were parked beside.
I told them this when I appealed, but they said 'it is not possible to take into account the position of other vehicles at the time. The responsibility is with the driver to check the bay markings due to other vehicles'.
They could have saved themselves a lot of typing and just said 'get on your bike'
Regards.
Scott.
Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.
If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.
If you can, please donate to this site.
Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.
If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire County Council of my car parked beyond the bay markings. As you can see the car to the left (red one) is over into my bay forcing me to park over to the right.
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire Coucil of the sign at the entrance / exit stating cars should park in lined bays. I think this should be at the payment meter and on each parking bay in order to be clear to drivers.
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire County Council of my car parked beyond the bay markings. As you can see the car to the left (red one) is over into my bay forcing me to park over to the right.
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire Coucil of the sign at the entrance / exit stating cars should park in lined bays. I think this should be at the payment meter and on each parking bay in order to be clear to drivers.
Ok forced to to do so by adjacent car.
Post the ticket up. Ive heard these are non compiant.
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire County Council of my car parked beyond the bay markings. As you can see the car to the left (red one) is over into my bay forcing me to park over to the right.
Here is a picture sent by Denbighshire Coucil of the sign at the entrance / exit stating cars should park in lined bays. I think this should be at the payment meter and on each parking bay in order to be clear to drivers.
Forced to do so by the next car. Pic proves it.
Post up the ticket. Ive heard these are non compliant. Twice LOL my browser palying up
Nightmare, I just paid £30 to Edinburgh District Council for almost the same thing I had parked between two cars, paid my ticket then wandered off to hire my son a kilt. When I returned the two other cars had gone and left me parked about two inches outside the bay.
I appealed the ticket, but today received a letter from them saying 'by parking in this manner the driver was contributing to the problem of unruly parking' it is considered that the very existence of bay markings makes parking within them self evident.
Sent me a picture of the evidence pitch black picture with my number plate reflecting the light from the guys camera. (I would appeal again, but think they will have a better picture than the scan they sent me)
Paid the £30 on-line about two hours ago.
I do not want to give them £60.
Regards.
Scott.
LOL you shoud have posted up the ticket for a technical out.
The excuse of 'I was forced into it' by the other driver will get you no where. Its not like he held you at gun point until you gave in and parked outside the bay. If you cannot park within the bay you are meant to park somewhere else and leave the original driver to get his pcn. How can you prove it was not you that 'forced' the other cars to park wrongly? Unless the signage or PCN is wrong the contravention is clear you are outside the bay.
The excuse of 'I was forced into it' by the other driver will get you no where. Its not like he held you at gun point until you gave in and parked outside the bay. If you cannot park within the bay you are meant to park somewhere else and leave the original driver to get his pcn. How can you prove it was not you that 'forced' the other cars to park wrongly? Unless the signage or PCN is wrong the contravention is clear you are outside the bay.
With permission from the mods, I would like to go to pm on this to avoid lengthy arguments. I have had these cancelled before.
The excuse of 'I was forced into it' by the other driver will get you no where. Its not like he held you at gun point until you gave in and parked outside the bay. If you cannot park within the bay you are meant to park somewhere else and leave the original driver to get his pcn. How can you prove it was not you that 'forced' the other cars to park wrongly? Unless the signage or PCN is wrong the contravention is clear you are outside the bay.
Did you even bother to read the first post? When I purchased a ticket there were NO other available spaces and the ONLY space was this one. Both cars on either side were parked across the bay markings and the sign was OUTSIDE the car park meaning I did not see it. I parked in an AVAILABLE SPACE which was dictated by how other cars were parked. There was no alternative space and the sign about parking within the bay markings was not prominent (i.e. it was outside the car park). This is why I believe the ticket can be challenged successfully.
With permission from the mods, I would like to go to pm on this to avoid lengthy arguments. I have had these cancelled before.
You have sent me two PMs so far and still I have not got a clue why and what you are talking about. Please post your comments inside this thread so everyone can gain knowledge from it. There is no need to keep this in PM.
...Please post your comments inside this thread so everyone can gain knowledge from it. There is no need to keep this in PM.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
..
.
Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.
Did you even bother to read the first post? When I purchased a ticket there were NO other available spaces and the ONLY space was this one. Both cars on either side were parked across the bay markings and the sign was OUTSIDE the car park meaning I did not see it. I parked in an AVAILABLE SPACE which was dictated by how other cars were parked. There was no alternative space and the sign about parking within the bay markings was not prominent (i.e. it was outside the car park). This is why I believe the ticket can be challenged successfully.
Yes I did read your post and stand by my comments, no one forced you to park you chose to park there. Your argument is like saying the parking bay was full so I parked next to it on a yellow line. I am not saying its fair getting a pcn in such circumstances just that arguing that someone 'forced' you to park is a waste of time except in mitigation in an informal appeal.
At the worst this sign should be placed at the ticket booth so you are acknowledging it as part of the contract formed when the ticket is sold / purchased.
There is no contract law in dispute here. This is a matter of statute, not contract.
PCN Code 86 - Beyond Bay Markings
from Denbighshire County Council. They really do not like me after I successfully got the last one overturned thanks to this forum.
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I had parked between two cars, paid my ticket then wandered off to hire my son a kilt. When I returned the two other cars had gone and left me parked about two inches outside the bay.
pitch black picture with my number plate reflecting the light from the guys camera. (I would appeal again, but think they will have a better picture than the scan they sent me)
Originally Posted by JimTheGent
