Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

being accused of theft with no evidence


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4220 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

hi there, im having some serious problems at work, yesterday i was called in for a meeting with the deputy manager, where he had a list of alleged breaches of contract i've committed. I work as a fitness instructor/personal trainer in a gym. Allegedly a woman gave me an envolpe with money in for a membership £29, one evening, they are saying that i stole it, however i was never given any envelope at all. Secondly they are saying that i personal trained someone for £30 and didnt put it thnrough the system where at the end of the month we recieve 70% of £30 in our pay, again this never took place. They have no evidence of anything as there are no cameras and nobody saw any of these things happen.

 

Earlier this year, there was trouble when an employee/manager sent an e-mail to someone forgetting to take me off the cc list, it read "i realy hate him", then a few months later that same person admitted to desroying the original copies of my training certificates., i telephoned the training company and got a letter telling me it would cost £60 for them, fine, the compny said they would get me new ones.......2 months later after me chasing them up....no certificates. This obviously stops me getting another job in the industry as i cannot prove my qujalifications witnout the certificates. Is this all classd as bullying? What can i do? I have a disciplinary on tuesday 2pm, where i think they will try to sack me.

 

Any help is much appreiated

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

You say they have no evidence, does this mean that both women who claim to of handed you cash have not made a statement to your company?

 

Regarding your certs, I would ring the training company and find out if your company has contacted them about them being replaced. If they haven't and as they are important to your future I would get them myself.

Edited by version302003
Link to post
Share on other sites

well im not sure if they have been given a written statement by these women but i was told that neither of them want their names known and i have been shown no proof of anything at all, its all their word against mine, fact is i did nopt take any envelope or train this fictional other woman. The company is not doing well financially, so i think they're trying to get rid of me to save money. I will ask for the letter back that the training compny ent me and call them myelf however i totally refuse to pay £60 for certificates that were purposely destroyed by someone there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, how long have you worked there?

 

Secondly, how was the disciplinary hearing communicated to you and have you been given a right to have a colleague present? Have you received written details of the allegation against you? Their process in bringing disciplinary action may be fundamentally flawed.

 

Your response to any allegation should be utter indignation and you should categorically deny any wrongdoing. Insofar as an allegation of theft is concerned you need far more detail than a mere allegation from persons unknown and if they are prepared to pursue this without corroboration then I would demand that the Police be involved. You are entitled to degree of mutual trust from your employer and if these allegations cannot be borne out by CCTV or witness corroboration then the employer should afford you the benefit of the doubt or else suggest why they have reasonable grounds to suspect that the allegation is true. For your part you should be prepared to highlight your unblemished work record, previously unquestioned integrity (responsibility for much larger amounts of money than £30 here and there) and the fact that such allegations have been made are completely without foundation.

 

Is there a record anywhere of what you were actually doing when the woman has suggested that you were giving her a private session? Was anybody else on duty at that time who might back this up?

 

You also need to raise a written grievance about the destruction of your certificates. If the member of staff is responsible it will be difficult to go back to him personally but it would be helpful if you have any written evidence of the company's agreement that they would replace them. Use that or if not then name names to complain that despite their assurance that they would replace your property, they have failed to do so.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

DONATE HERE

 

If I have been helpful in any way - please feel free to click on the STAR to the left!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks sidewinder, here are the answers to your questions.

 

 

Firstly, how long have you worked there?

 

 

I have worked there about 8 months

Secondly, how was the disciplinary hearing communicated to you and have you been given a right to have a colleague present? Have you received written details of the allegation against you? Their process in bringing disciplinary action may be fundamentally flawed.

 

The disciplinary procedure was communicated by taking me into the deputy managers office and asking me about the allegations. Then they told me they were suspending me on full pay from that minute and that I had to leave the premises. I was told that a letter would be delivered to my house by hand, which it was, my mum went to the door and took the letter, there was no receipt signed though. The letter contained the allegations but no specific details or details of evidence.

 

Your response to any allegation should be utter indignation and you should categorically deny any wrongdoing. Insofar as an allegation of theft is concerned you need far more detail than a mere allegation from persons unknown and if they are prepared to pursue this without corroboration then I would demand that the Police be involved. You are entitled to degree of mutual trust from your employer and if these allegations cannot be borne out by CCTV or witness corroboration then the employer should afford you the benefit of the doubt or else suggest why they have reasonable grounds to suspect that the allegation is true. For your part you should be prepared to highlight your unblemished work record, previously unquestioned integrity (responsibility for much larger amounts of money than £30 here and there) and the fact that such allegations have been made are completely without foundation.

 

 

Where I work there are no CCTV cameras in the gym, and as far as I am aware they are not claiming that anything was seen either, apart from this woman saying that she gave me the envelope....which never happened. Also I have cashed up for the last 6 months or so on my own and no money has ever gone missing before, usually there is at least £50 in the till, sometimes a couple of hundred pounds.

 

Is there a record anywhere of what you were actually doing when the woman has suggested that you were giving her a private session? Was anybody else on duty at that time who might back this up?

 

 

At the time they are alleging I took the envelope, there would have probably been no one else on duty, as the place is under-staffed and as I mentioned above, for the last 6 months I've been left on my own from about 7:30pm until closing at 10:00pm when I do the cashing up. As for the woman I've supposedly trained, they have not told me when it was or who it was, this is what I mean, there are no details or evidence.

You also need to raise a written grievance about the destruction of your certificates. If the member of staff is responsible it will be difficult to go back to him personally but it would be helpful if you have any written evidence of the company's agreement that they would replace them. Use that or if not then name names to complain that despite their assurance that they would replace your property, they have failed to do so.

 

I will look at the greivance procedure and write a letter regarding the certificates. I dont have any written evidence that they said they would replace them, could I ask now, or maybe they would refuse it now. I will be happy to name names as to who promised that my certificates would be replaced. They have had at least 2 months to get new ones.

Other things I were considering bringing up were general bullying, including the abusive e-mail (I have evidence), destruction of my property (have idmitted evidence), also another member of staff, the admin lady being abusive to me because keys were left in the till while I was upstairs, however when I went upstairs there was another member of staff still on shift and behind the desk with the keys, I reported this to my manager - whos the person that promised the new certificates.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say that although by no means a foregone conclusion, I am a little worried that the lack of 12 months service may not work in your favour. With a year's service you would have additional protection which would mean that your employer has to be more careful when taking disciplinary action, as you would be able to take action for Unfair Dismissal if they were to get rid of you without good cause or without following correct procedure.

 

My advice is still the same - give them absolutely no doubt that you are innocent - however if your fears are correct and that this is an excuse for costcutting, there is little that you will be able to do if dismissal is the end result.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

DONATE HERE

 

If I have been helpful in any way - please feel free to click on the STAR to the left!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent them a letter delivered by hand by my brother, they say I'm not allowed on the premises. The letter said that I was unable to attend the meeting scheduled for today as I have the flu (which I do) also due to the amount of notice I had been given (one day) I felt this was not long enough to prepare myself.

 

I provided them with 3 alternative dates which would be more appropriate. I also asked them for a copy of any written statements they had supporting these allegations and any other documentation they would be referring to in the forthcoming interview. Finally mentioned that I was not allowed sufficient time to get my personal belongings or a copy of the staff handbook which contains the disciplinary procedure.

 

My brother took this letter to the gym and asked for it to be passed to the deputy manager who is dealing with the issue. I got him to ask for the person taking the letter to write a receipt and sign it to prove it was given to them (didnt want them saying I just didnt turn up with nothing to let them know)

 

SO... a few hours ago there was a knock on my door, my mum answered it, it was someone handing her a letter from my work. They did not get her to sign anything, does this mean that technically they did not deliver it, as there is not proof that I received anything?

 

Their letter read:

 

"I am sorry to hear that you have the flu, and under these circumstances it is acceptable to delay our meeting in accordance with the statutory procedure.

 

I have re-arranged the meeting for Tuesday 30th December at 2pm. Enclosed is a copy of the Company disciplinary procedures. I have also enclosed a list of the dates in question and can confirm that I have a written statement to confirm these dates and the payments made. In fairness to the client, I am not prepared to send a copy to you, but will make a copy available to you at our meeting. In addition, I have enclosed my notes from the preliminary investigative meeting on the 20th December 2008"

 

(I was not told what I had to see then manager about and so I didnt take anyone else with me, however the manager had someone else there, is this right??)

 

I dont know what to do, shall I just send a resignation letter or should I go to the meeting?? I'm so angry with these people, its pure bullying and just trying to get rid of me, I never stole anything!

 

Any further help?

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a totally unqualified commenter - I would say never resign if you may need to sign on for any benefits to tide you over. You will be seen to have put yourself out of a job.

 

I would stick to your guns - absolutely insist that you have done nothing wrong and then go after them for your certificates. That is absolutely disgraceful and there is no way you should be paying to replace them yourself (although you may well have to in the end). If they do sack you ask them for the £60 to be added to your final pay as an expense - or if you have an expenses claim form system - put a claim in and hand it to them during the meeting.

 

Also - don't let them get you down..... it's about whose face fits sometimes. You'll find somewhere were you will be appreciated in the long run.

Link to post
Share on other sites

stanroyal thanks for help, i know i cannot claim unfair dismissal as ive only been there 8 months, but is it too late to make a serious complaint about bullying, i mean brinmg back up the e-mail, certs, and accusing of stealing to whoever is above the person who sacks me? Also does it mean that because they apparently havbe statements these arfe seen as hard evidence and stand up, surely its no different from me writing on a peice of paper that the manager stole money? No proof..

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Suggest telling them that unless they are prepared to produce at least 7 working days prior to any meeting a signed 'statement of truth' from your accusers you are not prepared to have a meeting without legal representation. Furthermore if they maintain their criminal libel you will yourself report the matter to the police after which you will sue for criminal libel the company, it's officers, managers & those individuals who are making highly distressing allegations of theft against you

 

Remind them that it is in itself a criminal offense to knowingly make false accusations of criminal behaviour against another

Edited by JonCris
Link to post
Share on other sites

Trust me mate do not give in my company tried to do the exact same to me before i was there a year and i beat there ass in to the ground at the end of it all they done me on a reasonable belief because i shot all their evidence to the ground and In your case what i would do first is get yourself a union rep as the company are under a legal obligation to allow you representation to the meeting ask them for the witness statements as you need to see them before you are able to defend yourself as you re still unsure of the aligations brought against you and then all you have to do is cast doubt on the evidence and you will triumph and they will not be able to sack you as they will not have evidence just a belief which on its own is not reasonable grounds of termination and all though you have not been there a year they still have to abide by the law and you can still take them to a tribunial if they fail to follow their end of the contract so make sure you go over all their policies with a fine tooth comb and use it to your advantage. good luck mate :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trust me mate do not give in my company tried to do the exact same to me before i was there a year and i beat there ass in to the ground at the end of it all they done me on a reasonable belief because i shot all their evidence to the ground and In your case what i would do first is get yourself a union rep as the company are under a legal obligation to allow you representation to the meeting ask them for the witness statements as you need to see them before you are able to defend yourself as you re still unsure of the aligations brought against you and then all you have to do is cast doubt on the evidence and you will triumph and they will not be able to sack you as they will not have evidence just a belief which on its own is not reasonable grounds of termination and all though you have not been there a year they still have to abide by the law and you can still take them to a tribunial if they fail to follow their end of the contract so make sure you go over all their policies with a fine tooth comb and use it to your advantage. good luck mate :D

 

 

Goodness me, what a load of........

 

Your employer can dismiss you without giving a reason within the first 12 months, so long as its not discriminatory on grounds of race, pregnancy etc, so all this talk of 'not be able to sack you' is just nonsense. The OP knows this.

 

Having said that, you must defend yourself vigorously if you are innocent. You may still end up out of a job but at least you will know you werent dismissed because of theft.

 

Make the employer produce evidence, not allegations. It will be impossible for them to have evidence if you are innocent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Goodness me, what a load of........

 

Your employer can dismiss you without giving a reason within the first 12 months, so long as its not discriminatory on grounds of race, pregnancy etc, so all this talk of 'not be able to sack you' is just nonsense. The OP knows this.

 

Having said that, you must defend yourself vigorously if you are innocent. You may still end up out of a job but at least you will know you werent dismissed because of theft.

 

Make the employer produce evidence, not allegations. It will be impossible for them to have evidence if you are innocent.

 

What are you talking about i know exactly what i am talking about. I was getting accused of fraud which i did not do so please tell me how they can sack you without going through the proper process. They cannot just dismiss you at any time. That is just stupid to even think that they could just fire you and that is that they have to give a reason and it has to be a good one just because you cannot take them to a tribunial does not mean that there are not other things you can do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What are you talking about i know exactly what i am talking about. I was getting accused of fraud which i did not do so please tell me how they can sack you without going through the proper process. They cannot just dismiss you at any time. That is just stupid to even think that they could just fire you and that is that they have to give a reason and it has to be a good one just because you cannot take them to a tribunial does not mean that there are not other things you can do.

 

p_cas is right. Anyone can be dismissed for any reason or no reason at all. Of course that does not make it right and if the dismissal was unfair(more than 12mths service), wrong or discriminatory then their would be reapercussions at an ET. However the dismissal would have still taken place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

you know, just from reading his thread, it seems to me that the employer just wants rid of them, and is using the alledged theft as a convenient excuse.

thing is though, if no conclusive evidence of theft can be produced, but yet in their correspondance they make reference to it, then you could get them for libel, regardless if you end up dismissed or not, as being dismissed form a job on the grounds of unsubstaniated theft can leave you with a black smear on your character, and thus could lead to problems in the future.

 

not really helpful i know, but its a thought.

Link to post
Share on other sites

they have to give a reason and it has to be a good one

 

With 8 months service you have no statutory right to reasons for dismissal unless you are pregnant or on mat leave etc at the effective date of termination ERA 1996, s.92(3).

 

Good practice would of course be for them to let you know written reasons, but if you submitted a request for such, they would be under no legal obligation to comply.

 

Kind regards

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

Link to post
Share on other sites

the company are under a legal obligation to allow you representation to the meeting

 

Sorry, no.

 

The right exists to be accompanied and for the person who accompanies you to act as a witness to the meeting. There is no right to representation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

I am in a similar position myself but just not on the same scale at all. I work in a cafe and my boss made a sarcastic comment to me today about a piece of honeycomb missing from one cake. Im not stupid and I know she was accusing me of taking it. I'm not a thief and I'm really upset that after a year and their longest serving member of staff that I'd be accused of such a little thing like that. Either way you look at it, theft is theft and thats what i've been accused of whether it was £1000 or a piece of honeycomb from a cake. Maybe I'm over reacting but I am really upset about it...

 

I asked a fellow staff member about it and they said they had no idea. I'm really stuck with what to do.

 

my boss has no proof it was me. has she got the right to accuse me of doing something like theft without any proof?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in a similar position myself but just not on the same scale at all. I work in a cafe and my boss made a sarcastic comment to me today about a piece of honeycomb missing from one cake. Im not stupid and I know she was accusing me of taking it. I'm not a thief and I'm really upset that after a year and their longest serving member of staff that I'd be accused of such a little thing like that. Either way you look at it, theft is theft and thats what i've been accused of whether it was £1000 or a piece of honeycomb from a cake. Maybe I'm over reacting but I am really upset about it...

 

I asked a fellow staff member about it and they said they had no idea. I'm really stuck with what to do.

 

my boss has no proof it was me. has she got the right to accuse me of doing something like theft without any proof?

 

It doesn't sound to me as though you've been accused of anything!

 

I'd let it go until they actually start pursuing you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...