Thread: M&S More Money

Originally had store card with M&S and this was changed to a credit card automatically some years ago, M&S receiving some bad press because customers had not requested a Credit Card. I posted a SAR for the original documentation with regards to the CC (which they won't have) and after 14 days the silence has been deafening, they will not have a signed copy of the CC terms and conditions as one was never sent out. I am now at a point of "what do I do now?" as I cannot find further letters to continue with my harrassment of them, anyone point me in the right direction?

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I understand that you send further letter after 40 days, is that from first date or after the first 10+2 days have passed?

Originally Posted by ajs444

Originally had store card with M&S and this was changed to a credit card automatically some years ago, M&S receiving some bad press because customers had not requested a Credit Card. I posted a Subject access request for the original documentation with regards to the CC (which they won't have) and after 14 days the silence has been deafening, they will not have a signed copy of the CC terms and conditions as one was never sent out. I am now at a point of "what do I do now?" as I cannot find further letters to continue with my harrassment of them, anyone point me in the right direction?

Hello Ajs,

Perhaps I can assist you on this one The first thing to do is be patient, the ammunition you require will come

If you have sent a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act 1998, with your £10 payment to the lovely (have faith in our company) M&S, they have forty days + 2 days to comply. So they still have time to comply.

If you sent them a request with a £1 payment, under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974 for a copy of your origingal credit agreement they have 12 workings days + 2 postage. So they would be in default and then you can legally dispute the account.

Did you sent them a 77/78 request??????? If you did'nt I would, to cover all bases

What you will find is that they will comply by sending you a copy of your store card application form which will have a different account number than the credit card account that you have now. They will insist that they sent you a mailer informing you of the changes

Can I ask for a bit of background regarding your dispute with them please

I have sent a 77/78 request with a £1 cheque which has been cashed ,so I know they have received the letter. They are now well past the 12+2 days for reply and they are phoning me for payment on the account, my reply to them is that they have not responded to my request under the consumer credit act.
This all stems from the claim for refund of PPI because I had a diagnosed medical condition and was retired from my work on ill health. They have refused to refund premiums (although MBNA did) so I have taken it one step further and asked for documentation.

Well received letter from M&S this morning, special delivery.
Photocopied signed agreement for Chargecard dated 23rd June 1989 with £500 limit on it, also photocopy of terms and conditions.
They have also supplied T&C's for M&S Credit Card, there are no signed forms with this.
Any advice?

Originally Posted by ajs444

Well received letter from M&S this morning, special delivery.
Photocopied signed agreement for Chargecard dated 23rd June 1989 with £500 limit on it, also photocopy of terms and conditions.
They have also supplied T&C's for M&S Credit Card, there are no signed forms with this.
Any advice?

Hello ajs.

I would be thanking them very much for their documents related to the store card that you opened with them in 1989, but I would still be requiring and asking for the copy of the credit agreement for the credit card

You appear supprised that they have not sent you a signed true copy of the credit agreement for the M&S more credit card, did you sign one8)?????

I didn't. and I bet you. neither did the thousands of other custuomers who had the credit card sent to them. during the upgrade in 2003.didn't ether.

One quick question the store card that you opened, does it have the same account no as the new credit card account:-?

Thanks for your rapid response, cannot see any mention of an account number on the signed agreement.
I take it you have also pursued them for this information, how did you fair?
Is their a link to your case HHNF?

ajs444 are you with me on my marks and spencer money thread muffintop v mns
I for the life of me cannot work out if they have sent me a valid cca, Iv just taken another look at what they sent me, it does state credit card agreement and is signed by me in 2007 but noticed that the credit card agreement number top right is not the same as my current account number, this has confused me somewhat.. any ideas? They say I once held a store card but I swear I never recall having one and only a marks and spencer credit card. waiting for my Subject access request request to come back.
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...ncersigned.jpg
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...snspencer2.jpg
Muffintop

Thanks Banker, do we know if a new place has been ok'd by a Mod yet and if all M&S threads could be moved there for maximum coverage.

Hi Muffintop, Banker rhymes and all, a happy and hopefully prosperous new year!
I have issued default notice on M&S as they have not provided me with a copy of the CCA for my account.
All they have supplied is a store card agreement which is as much good as a chocolate fireguard.
Regards putting all M&S cases in same place, could be a good idea.

Hello Ajs444!

Happy New Year to you too, I do hope it's a good one.

Sorry for hi-jacking your Thread (I'd lost track of whose Thread it was because questions were asked by others!), but I think the comments for Muffintop may be of interest.

If you have not already seen this elsewhere on CAG, others have mentioned that M&S simply updated the Store Cards and Charge Cards into M&S Credit Cards, without bothering to get anyone to Sign anything.

Silly move perhaps!

Cheers,
BRW

Yeah BRW
I know they were widely criticised for the transfer, I think someone had a quote/Cutting from some newspaper on this forum, but can't find it.
I wondered if Hell Has No Fury had pursued them at some point due to his earlier comment on this thread.
I hate to think how many people were transfered over to a CC and if they know that there is no agreement to enforce interest/default charges on the account.

Hya AJ and other subscribing Caggers. I do hope its a Happy New Year 4u too.
Brave of you to go to next step and issue default notice.. is this a specific letter? will this force their hand and flush them out to either provide your cca or cancel the debt?
Im still waiting for my SAR request so I can see what they have.
Does anyone know if you have to pay for freedom of information request when you have already paid 10.00 for dpa info in the SAR?

Letter re-default can be found on this site, someone will guide you there. When their collection department phones and I explain that no valid agreement exists, they don't understand!!

Received letter this morning from Mr Officer in response to my default.
He says that they have supplied valid copy of CCA under Sections 77 or 78 of Consumer Credit Act, and this is valid. The FSA and Trading Standards were consulted and supported them in the transfer from Store Card to Credit Card, although they were widely criticised in the Press.
He says that if I do not respond in 8 weeks case will be closed or we could proceed to fos for resolution.
Anyone got next stage letter to hit them with???

This is my concern with ts and fos I have not heard one success story where a complaint has been made to them and they have acted objectively and taken action.. I may be wrong but it seems waste of time complaining to them??

How are you getting on??
received my SAR today which shows inconsistencies in the date and original agreement they sent me which is supposed to me the date I opened the account...

Originally Posted by ajs444

Yeah BRW
I know they were widely criticised for the transfer, I think someone had a quote/Cutting from some newspaper on this forum, but can't find it.
I wondered if Hell Has No Fury had pursued them at some point due to his earlier comment on this thread.
I hate to think how many people were transfered over to a CC and if they know that there is no agreement to enforce interest/default charges on the account.

Hello Ajs and Muffintop,


It is quoted as 2.6 million had store cards transferred to credit cards. Somebody there though this was a really good idea at the time to increase profits and hopefully It will come back and bit them big them big still.

Here is the story printed in the Mail on Sunday for your reference

Consumer advice
Marks makes sparks
Richard Dyson, Mail on Sunday
24 September 2003
THE financial arm of Marks & Spencer has become the first major company to break the Banking Code, the voluntary rulebook agreed by the banking and credit card industry.


precedented move: Laurel Powers-Freeling
M&S Money, which is poised to launch its '&more' credit card business in the next fortnight, has ignored the rule that forbids lenders from sending cards to people who have not asked for them.
Within days, M&S will post its new MasterCard to 2.6m people. In all but a handful of cases, the recipients will not have requested the cards. Instead, they will be targeted because they are on the company's database of five million store card customers.
The move, seen by rivals as unprecedented and extremely aggressive, will at a stroke transform M&S into Britain's sixth-biggest credit card company.
Up to £4bn of fresh credit will be offered to consumers who have not asked for it.
The Banking Code has been drawn up and modified over several years to promote good practice and fairness to consumers. The code clearly states: 'We will send you a card only if you ask for one or to replace a card you already have.'
M&S's card launch is being overseen by Laurel Powers-Freeling, formerly of Lloyds TSB and now chief executive of M&S Money.
She says the new &more cards are simply 'replacements' or 'upgrades' for existing store cards. But in practice, the cards are completely different - store cards can be used only in M&S shops and typically impose low spending limits.
The new cards can be used anywhere and the average spending limits are likely to be at least doubled, according to M&S.
The code is enforced by the Banking Code's Standard Board (BCSB), which is now in an embarrassing position. In private, it has expressed concern at M&S's tactic. But publicly, it is allowing M&S to wriggle off the hook because the code is not set to apply officially to M&S until next summer.
BCSB chief executive Seymour Fortescue says: 'M&S is still in the process of applying to subscribe to the code, so we don't yet have official jurisdiction over its activities. Only when it is fully covered can we force it to comply.'
M&S's move, coming as card issuers face increased scrutiny from MPs on the powerful Treasury Select Committee, has also plunged the High Street giant into political hot water. Vince Cable MP, the Liberal Democrat industry spokesman, has called for all uninvited offers of credit to be outlawed.
Of M&S's card launch, he says: 'It is unsolicited debt promotion by any other name, whatever the company says. It's very dangerous.'
And he warned: 'If and when the current economic bubble bursts, a lot of people will find themselves in difficulties. M&S will have a direct responsibility.'
An M&S spokesman said: 'We are offering existing customers an improved service. We are not sending cards to people with whom we have no relationship. Our credit limits are extremely prudent. We can say, hand on heart, that we are a responsible lender.'

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Now as regarding the credit agreements they are sending out to satisfy a section 77-78 request under the cca 1974, I have seen a few kicking about the threads and I believe they are pre-contractual application forms, which do not contain all of the prescribed terms required by the cca 1974 M&S state that they are enforceable I believe they are not

All cases differ, I hit a financial crisis in 2006, entered into a dmp with payplan. Paid what I could to my creditors and I found M&S to be one of the worst. They hounded me with calls, sent threatening letters even when I paid them.

Sent a SAR and found they had applied ppi to 3 loans I had with them. They had also applied penalty charges to the card account. This is when I started my dispute with them.

They refunded back the ppi. They instructed a DCA to pursue me and paid them the penalty charges This is still whilst I was paying token payments.

After I received my 1994 pre-contractual application form as a ca, I asked for the credit agreement that I signed to upgrade my account to a credit card, they stated the 1994 application form was the ca.

I stopped all payments to them and put the account into legal dispute, they then instructed another dca to pursue me and they retreated rather hastily after one letter from me

They then sent another dca after me and again they retreated after one letter.

I have exhausted their complaints procedure with my arguements and they don't talk to me anymore and haven't for the last year. But when I find the time, I am going to kick start it up again, there has been a default sitting on my credit reference file for 2yrs now and I want it removed.

My advise to you would be keep at them, always take what they state with a pinch of salt, read up on other threads regarding enforceable credit agreements and hit them hard