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Hi, I have a loan which was taken out with Flexi Loans & Mortgages and i also requested PPI to be added to the loan. The PPI was provided through Swift.
I know that i cant claim back my PPI as i requested and wanted it. But i was not told what commison Flexi would get from Swift for arranging the Insurance.
Can i claim back that commision as i was not told about it.
Should i have had to sign something saying that i know the amount of the commision received or should i have at least received the amount in writing.
if i can does anybody have any letters i can send to Flexi to reclaim this.
This is a very interesting point. There has been case law about this secret commissions within loan arrangements for brokers.
I found on a loan I had that the broker received a fee, fair enough I knew about it, but then I found they received another fee from the loan company too which I didn't know about until I asked.
It is deemed unacceptable and reclaimable as the broker could not have been impartial in their recommendation of that particular product if they were receiving an additional incentive from the loan company.
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Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
Thank you for popping in to PPI forum. This question would of course have meant I would have to start night classes with a view to becoming a member of the bar.
Now I am ok with bars but not one where a knowledgable Judge can make you quiver.
I have no legal training and the advice I offer is a matter of support. Before you commit to any Legal action you are advised to contact a qualified legal practitioner. ------------------------------------------------
Bank charge successes:
Halifax - Full settlement incl interest.
HSBC - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 75% of claim.
RBS - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 70% of claim.
2 ongoing claims for bank charges with HSBC with more to come. (Supreme Court ruling could have upset these claims) They did
PPI Successes
PPI 4 settlements on 9 loans. FOS involvement on 7 added on the 8 % Statutory interest another 30% to both.
2 claims settled in full with LV without FOS involvement.
2 claims settled in full with HSBC without FOS involvement
PPI Claims ongoing with:
Cap one Now with the FOS
Barclays. Paid up today 24/04/10 cheque received for over £4,500 and in the bank.
LTSB still have to decide on this as their SAR production was abysmal. Papers data mixed up documents missing etc
Please do not PM me for advice as it may be sometime before I can respond.
Keep at them. Do not give way and do not accept all they tell you, they will delay and stall for as long as they can to prevent repaying you your mis-sold PPI.
Thank you for popping in to PPI forum. This question would of course have meant I would have to start night classes with a view to becoming a member of the bar.
Now I am ok with bars but not one where a knowledgable Judge can make you quiver.
Thank you Andrew1
I will have to have a good read and try and type a complaint letter.
Ill put the letter on here once ive done it for your approval.
Thanks
I just love getting people to read lots but take a read over this Parliamentary debate regarding secret commissions. There is some sterling information here to be absorbed even to the point of sub-prime lenders who put a charge on properties but don't actually own the homes making them taking people to court when they have no right to...over a cuppa this one... House of Commons Hansard Debates for 16 Oct 2001 (pt 5)
A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
an undisclosed commission which is totally secret, that is to say NEVER EVER disclosed, or even suggested that a commission may be paid to a broker , is dynamite
Obviously if there has been no disclosure the agent will have received a secret commission. This is a blatant breach of his fiduciary duty but additionally the payment or receipt of a secret commission is considered to be a form of bribe and is treated in the authorities as a special category of fraud in which it is unnecessary to prove motive, inducement or loss up to the amount of the bribe. The principal has alternative remedies against both the briber and the agent for money had and received where he can recover the amount of the bribe or for damages for fraud where he can recover the amount of any actual loss sustained by entering into the transaction in respect of which the bribe was given. (Mahesan v Malaya's Housing Society [1979] AC374, 383). Furthermore the transaction is voidable at the election of the principal who can rescind it provided counter-restitution can be made. (Panama & South Pacific Telegraph Co. v India Rubber, Gutta Percha, and Telegraph Co. [1875] 9 Ch App 515, 527, 532-3).
In what circumstances would secret commissions be inappropriate and illegal?
Are we just talking about "independent" brokers offering advice, surely not loan companies who are offering PPI policies???
Financial advice has to be seen as being independent. If a broker is paid a fee for introducing business he/she will be paid by the borrower, often via the loan itself and that is why it is shown on the loan agreement documents. By the borrower paying the broker one is assured that their advice is in no way influenced by any particular finance company and the advice is only in the borrowers best interests not the brokers.
Now introduce a 'secret commission' being offered by the finance company to a broker for introducing more business to them rather than anyone else. If a broker receives a fee from the finance company and it is NOT mentioned or disclosed to the borrower in a totally open manner then it could be deemed that the broker is a 'tied agent' or is not acting in the best interests of the borrower but his own. That then becomes an offence.
You have pointed out PPI, I suppose that could also be deemed the same although to be honest I hadn't even thought about that angle, but yes, I guess one could see a finance company providing PPI from a chosen source as being a tied broker for that insurance company if they didn't offer you a choice. Come to think of it, when I took a £13k loan once and was charged £6000 insurance which they added to the loan, not only was I angry about the price, I certainly had no choice to select from and I am sure the bank took a nice little earner from the introduction fee..mmmm?
A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
I have a loan with Picture Financial with PPI, they only offered 1 policy for the PPI and no mention of commission but I am sure there must have been. Waiting on a SAR to find out.
I don't see how it can apply to PPI on loans or credit cards.
Suppose I take out a loan with Bank X and they add in a PPI policy supplied by Insurance Company Y. The PPI policy costs me a cash price of £1,000, but X only bought it from Company Y for £800.
The £200 is X's profit and motivation for the sale, and doesn't have to be disclosed, right?
Now, imagine another insurance company Z came along and tried to persuade X to sell the Z products instead of the Y ones, offering to sell them to X for only £750, increasing X's profits to £250 per policy sold.
Obviously Y would be unhappy about this. So, as they have a big margin in their products anyway, and X is their biggest customer, they agree to drop their price to £700 per policy, so that X now makes £300 per policy sold to the final consumer.
Ok, so this is why I don't think your arguments can apply to loan companies selling PPI: how is Y cutting the price that they ask X to pay them by £100 (from £300 to £200) any different from simply offering X a "bribe" or "secret commission" of £100 per policy sold?
And, perhaps in the real world it is more likely that, as X is their favourite customer, Y are offering, not £100 per policy in secret commissions, but some kind of "rebate" or general muddy goodwill preferential payment somewhere in the depths of their corporate structure.
I think the key is that the loan company will try and claim that they are 'not providing an advisory service' when they sell PPI. This is certainly what Egg Card are telling us about their Card Repayment Protection policy purchased online. This is, they want you to believe, a very different situation from a broker who claims to be advising you in your best interests but is secretly just taking the biggest kickbacks.
Perhaps a new angle on PPI mis-selling claims would be to see if the finance company are correctly following the regulations for selling financial products without offering an advisory service - or indeed if this is an acceptabe thing to be doing at all.
I think this may have more to do with one not being given a choice of having or not having PPI with Loan companies. Commissions to brokers are a different kettle of fish than what you have just described I agree, but I don't think finance companies actually 'buy' the insurance, mine for example was openly sold through London & Edinbrugh not the Bank who provided the loan although it was included in the loan agreement. Needs some further thought... nice analysis though MC
A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
You have pointed out PPI, I suppose that could also be deemed the same although to be honest I hadn't even thought about that angle, but yes, I guess one could see a finance company providing PPI from a chosen source as being a tied broker for that insurance company if they didn't offer you a choice. Come to think of it, when I took a £13k loan once and was charged £6000 insurance which they added to the loan, not only was I angry about the price, I certainly had no choice to select from and I am sure the bank took a nice little earner from the introduction fee..mmmm?
This news comes a little late for me as RBS have offered goodwill settlements and they organised the PPI with their own insurers so the score now becomes Alanalana 2 RBS 1 we will soon put paid to that
Have a good great New Year
aa
I have no legal training and the advice I offer is a matter of support. Before you commit to any Legal action you are advised to contact a qualified legal practitioner. ------------------------------------------------
Bank charge successes:
Halifax - Full settlement incl interest.
HSBC - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 75% of claim.
RBS - Settlement, goodwill no admission of liability about 70% of claim.
2 ongoing claims for bank charges with HSBC with more to come. (Supreme Court ruling could have upset these claims) They did
PPI Successes
PPI 4 settlements on 9 loans. FOS involvement on 7 added on the 8 % Statutory interest another 30% to both.
2 claims settled in full with LV without FOS involvement.
2 claims settled in full with HSBC without FOS involvement
PPI Claims ongoing with:
Cap one Now with the FOS
Barclays. Paid up today 24/04/10 cheque received for over £4,500 and in the bank.
LTSB still have to decide on this as their SAR production was abysmal. Papers data mixed up documents missing etc
Please do not PM me for advice as it may be sometime before I can respond.
Keep at them. Do not give way and do not accept all they tell you, they will delay and stall for as long as they can to prevent repaying you your mis-sold PPI.
This news comes a little late for me as RBS have offered goodwill settlements and they organised the PPI with their own insurers so the score now becomes Alanalana 2 RBS 1 we will soon put paid to that
Have a good great New Year
aa
I got a funny feeling this years gonna be a corker...
A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
I am extremely interested in this topic secret commissions. At present I am helping someone with a PPI claim against Land of Leather and the finance company who gave them the loan. And of course they are in total denial and both issued a final responce after the first letter.
I have requested to know the commission paid for the sale of ppi and warrenty insurances and they have both failed to answer that question.
Will start a new thread regarding this complaint to see what unfolds
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
I am extremely interested in this topic secret commissions. At present I am helping someone with a PPI claim against Land of Leather and the finance company who gave them the loan. And of course they are in total denial and both issued a final responce after the first letter.
I have requested to know the commission paid for the sale of ppi and warrenty insurances and they have both failed to answer that question.
Will start a new thread regarding this complaint to see what unfolds
Hey HHNF
You need to ask them for the underwriting sheet or other document containing any commission payments
they will scream and kick but thats their tough titties as you are entitled to it and if they dont give you it then you can seek pre action disclosure and get the court to order them to provide it
You need to ask them for the underwriting sheet or other document containing any commission payments
they will scream and kick but thats their tough titties as you are entitled to it and if they dont give you it then you can seek pre action disclosure and get the court to order them to provide it
Thank PT, will do
Oh I love the kicking and screaming bit
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
You need to ask them for the underwriting sheet or other document containing any commission payments
they will scream and kick but thats their tough titties as you are entitled to it and if they dont give you it then you can seek pre action disclosure and get the court to order them to provide it
Originally Posted by hellhasnofury
Thank PT, will do
Oh I love the kicking and screaming bit
Hmmm, so do I, I didnt realise I could ask them for that information pt . I think I just might go and ruin another day for a certain advisor at the bank
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
ermm my brain isn't quite firing on all cylinders at the moment how does this relate to banks putting their own PPI on a loan - My Lloyds loan has Lloyds PPI which I am claiming back - now I KNOW the guy selling the loan got commission for both the loan and the PPI and have used this in my complaint to suggest that he was biased when setting it all up - they haven't answered that bit
If you can keep you head when all of those around you are losing theirs try parking your helicopter somewhere else
The secret commission relates to a broker getting a fee from you, which you know all about AND a fee from the insurance company/finance company without you knowing about it. It's that which you know nothing about that is 'secret' and unlawful. The way you find out if they received a fee is to ask them and the finance company to disclose it. If they didn't get/pay one then they won't mind telling you. If they did, they will so you'll have to use the legal process to find out like sending in a Subject access request.
The problem with banks is they insist, or used to on taking their insurance as a condition. The bank will obtain a commission for sure, but for the loan, well that's more an internal commission which will be part of a salary package I'd imagine if it's staff, but they still have a responsibility to offer a choice.
A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful
Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.
Sarah PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps
PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! Thank you.
secret commisions
to be added to the loan. The PPI was provided through Swift.
Reply With Quote
URL: 
Originally Posted by alanalana
but take a read over this Parliamentary debate regarding secret commissions. There is some sterling information here to be absorbed even to the point of sub-prime lenders who put a charge on properties but don't actually own the homes making them taking people to court when they have no right to...over a cuppa this one... 
. I think I just might go and ruin another day for a certain advisor at the bank 
