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hi

I received a letter today saying that they are still looking into my complaint and I should have an answer by 30/12/2008.

 

So how can they go ahead and add the two disputed amounts to the mortgage and start adding arrears management fees!

 

A case of the left not knowing what the right is doing methinks.

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To all you SPML mortgage borrowers

 

Just to let you know that SPML is the special purpose vehicle company (SPV) behind Lehman Brothers investment bank. As you probably know Lehman's went belly up a few months ago.

 

The real drive behind the excessive interest rates and the problems you are facing, most likely has more to do with the Lehman Brothers securitisation of your mortgages. Because the SPV has to suck in all the cash it can (which you guys have to stomp up) to pay for the liquidation. The SPV investors want their cash now. That's why the pressure is on you.

 

These securitisation companies are now in the repossession business (as contrasted with the mortgage business). Thus, they will force you into 'alleged' arrears through excessive charges and then repossess your home. The public need to get wised up to what has really happened to their mortgages and need to understand that what's happening is the result of your mortgages having been securitised.

 

You will find that SPML is nothing more than a shell company that holds the assets, i.e. your mortgage contracts which is the assets. SPML most likely has no employees and the director's of SPML are most likely just companies, rather than an real person. You can find out exactly who SPML are through the Companies House web-site.

 

SPML will probably have contracted with a company to do the administration of your mortgages. So whilst you are led to believe that you are receiving letters from SPML, the author of those letters is more likely to be another company that administrates the mortgages on behalf of SPML.

 

If you really want to know what has happened to your mortgages, and what is really going on behind the scenes, the way to find out is to go to the FSA where the UK Listing Authority public records are held. Get the Prospectus which covers the securitisation of your mortgage. You will then find out exactly what has happened to your mortgages, and just how many financial institutions are really grabbing cash off you. You will be astonished.

 

For those of you who are interested, the following is a basic outline of a general securitisation structure:

Edited by supersleuth
copy and paste of securisation structure unreadable
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Hi Midge61,

 

You're right...and did you notice that the 'Type' of business is listed at Companies House as 'Other financial intermediation'. Which means it's a middle man. It's not in the mortgage business. It is an intermediator.

 

The accounts that were filed to year end 2006, will still give you the flavour of how they are abusing the borrowers. They'll most likely have boasted and bigged themselves up about how much money their striping off the borrowers.

 

My mortgage is not with SPML, but I have done a lot of research into this issue and the basic abuses perpetrated against mortgage borrowers is generally the same whoever is behind the securitisation. I was definitely being overcharged. That is, being charged interest over and above my legal contractual obligations and the upshot is: they dictate - you pay, or else you get repossessed. It matter not to them, that they are not entitled to the payments they are asking for. The point to them is - you signed, and as such, you are their financial slave.

 

I'm fighting, but in order to fight it, you've got to know who it is that really driving the show. It's not necessarily the person from whom you get your letters. Your mortgage has been - mortgaged - the entity that mortgaged your mortgage, together with the entity that owns the mortgage on your mortgage, are the entities that are really behind your mortgage.

 

This may all sound complicated, but it really isn't. It just seems complicated because hitherto, everything has been concealed from you. So shead some light on what's really going on with your mortgage and shed some light on who really owns it, and shed the light on what they've done with your mortgage, then all will be revealed. It's very easy. It's nothing more complicated than plain old greed for money.

Edited by supersleuth
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To identify which securitisation in which your mortgage was most likely to have been securitised, first look at the listings against the various SPML securitisation. It is most likely that the securitisation that occurred immediately after the date on which you took out your mortgage, will be the securitisation in which your mortgage was securitised. As a general rule of thumb, your mortgage will have been securitised within 3 months of the date on which you signed up your mortgage.

 

Once you have identified which listings you are interested in, then you have to actually go to the FSA in Canary Wharf, London. (They don't make it easy, but it's worth it).

 

When you arrive at the building, the FSA have public access computers (which are located just behind the reception desk). You check in at reception and then they let you onto the public access computer system. Then you search for the listing that you are interested in. All documents that have been filed against that listing will be available to you including the Prospectus. Note that I use the generic term 'Prospectus' which is what it is, but you will often find it called things like 'Note Programme Memorandum' or 'Note Issue Supplement' or 'Offering Circular' these are all Prospectuses. It is a document (i.e. Prospectus) that tells the investors what the deal is. You can print out the lot. It takes time to uncover the rot, but the point is, that the information is available to you.

 

It may not be feasible for you to go to London, so in the meantime as an alternative, find out the company names that you are interested in and just google them. You'll probably turn up quite a bit of information that way. Also, google Lehman brother's. There'll be loads of press announcements which say things like "Lehman announces £1.5 Billion asset backed securities issues" or "Lehmans launches £600 million Residential Mortgage Backed Securities" or SPML sells Mortgage Book to so-and so". Look out for the 'Deal' announcements in the financial press around the 3-month period after you took out your mortgage. The press release will give you clues, or let you know who is involved in the securitisation.

 

Good luck supersleuthing...

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They actually expect thhe maturity of these loans when the fixed rate end despite the mortgage term being 20 years or more!

 

So now the fixed rates are ending they are panicking because people are unable to re-mortgage in present climate.

 

This explains why I have just been told I have 2 months arrears apparently from Sept 2007 and Dec 2006. They are going all out to find ways of re-possessing or pushing me to re mortgage!

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Hi Midge61

 

That's the conclusion that I came to. Having checked out my securitisation repossessions are the real game. In my case for example, WestLB are the investment bank behind the securitisation. WestLB created a 'mortgage' company called Basinghall Finance plc. All Basinghall Finance borrowers are led to belive that Basinghall are the mortgage owner/company. But in truth, Basinghall sold £600 million worth of mortgages to Clavis Securities plc in June 2006. Between June 2006 and December 2007 (18 months), the £600 million pool of mortgages was reduced to £300 million. This means that £300 million worth of mortgage borrowers were either repossessed or forced to re-mortgage with another company during that 18 month period.

 

Thus, the upshot is: when we take out a mortgage for a 25 year loan, the truth is that the mortgage company have NO INTENTION of letting you have that loan for 25 years. Thus, they either force you to redeem by remortgage (if you can), and if you can't they'll force you into arrears (through overcharging), tell the court that you have defaulted, and then repossess you.

 

As for the jackieandwayne situation, the entity that sold your house has a legal 'duty of care'. They have to account to you for all the costs and expenses the sale incurred. They are only entitled to charge "reasonable" costs. Anything that is unreasonable is payable back to you.

To find out who exercised the power of sale (i.e. the company who actually sold your house, which was probably an 'agent' that exercised the bank's power of sale), get a copy of the Land Registry Form TR1. The company that signed the sale of the property will be on that TR1. Then Subject Access Request them.

 

Infact, if you read the terms and conditions of your mortgage, you will find that at law, that 'agent' is actually your 'agent' that the bank appointed for you. See the sections of the T&C's relating to your "power of attorney" that you granted to the bank when you signed the mortgage contract (even thought the chances are that you didn't even know or didn't realise that you had granted a power of attorney).

 

Hope this gives you some pointers.

Edited by supersleuth
typos
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Oh final point...when you consider the £44K alleged costs of selling a repossesed house (re the JackieandWayne situation), you will see just how profitable repossessions really are for the mortgage companies. That's just one more reason why repossessions are the real game. They win if they repossess, and they win when they overcharge you. Like I said before, this securitisation game is easy really, it is just about greed for money and us little borrowers are seen as easy pickings.

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Hi

 

In the mortgage agreement they put a clause that states "we may sell your mortgage on". Does this not cover them?

 

It is well hidden in the small print but are you saying that although they do sell them on because they do not tell you who they sell it too that this makes the contract void in some way?

 

Also with the interest rates in the contract it states their svr is 4.25% plus LIBOR so surely their reasoning is that this is what you agreed too so how can you argue this? I do find it bad that they alter the LIBOR part every 3 months but their part is not altered at all.

 

I just want to understand a bit more.

 

Hope you get your date soon. This will be most interesting.

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Hi Midge61,

 

Re your point about the contract states "we may sell your mortgage on". That is correct. They can sell the mortgage on under a statutory provision which is usually mentioned in the T&Cs. They don't have to tell you that they are going to sell your mortgage, but once they do, the statute provides that they must tell you that it HAS been sold. The statutory provisions are: The Land Registration Act 1925 s.33. One point that most lawyers don't seem to realise is that the LRA 1925 was repealed as of 13 October 2003. Another point on this issue is that you may have consented to their right to sell the mortgage on, but you did not consent to, or know that, new lender would assume for itself the power to create a mortgage - against your mortgage. In the securitisation process, that is what the new lender has done. It has mortgaged your mortgage. Which means that there are three entities that now pressure and hassles you: the original lender hassles you, the SPV hassles you and the trustee, who owns the mortgage on your mortgage hassles you.

 

It could be argued that all this conduct is a material breach of contract. It has extended your liabilities and the number of entities involved in your mortgage. Whilst this may void the contract, I haven't researched whether this would void the contract so I can't say whether or not it would.

 

The legal argument in my case concerns The Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1989 s.2 and the Rule in Pigot's Case. My mortgage contract was originated with GMAC-RFC Limited.

 

Under The LPA 1989 s.2 the law makes it compulsory to comply with certain formalities for a valid mortgage contract. Failure to comply with the s.2 formalities makes the contract void. It is a simple provision which requires that a contract for the sale of a disposition in land (a mortgage), must be "expressly agreed in writing" and "signed by both parties". My contract is not "expressly agreed" because I merely "acknowledged" receipt of the their T&Cs. There is precedent that an "acknowledgement" is not an "expressed agreement". Plus, GMAC did not sign the contract anyway. Thus, no compliance with s.2 makes the contract void.

 

In short, my Pigot's case argument is: The rule provides that if, after a Deed has been executed, that Deed is changed in any manner by one party to that Deed without the expressed consent of the other party, that Deed is becomes void. The facts in my case are that, on reading the Prospectus, I discovered that GMAC had executed a "Deed of Variations" that varied the Standardard Conditions of my mortgage. I had no knowledge that this has happened. Nonetheless, GMAC unilaterally varied the Deed without my knowledge or consent. Thus, my argument is that the Deed is void by application of the rule in Pigot's case.

 

As for the LIBOR question. SPML don't set the LIBOR rate. You can check the LIBOR on the British Bankers Association (BBA) web-site and get all the LIBOR rates. You will need to look at the tables (most likely) for the 3-month LIBOR. On the reset dates that are provided in the contract, check what the libor was on that date and then add the 4.25%. You may find that the SVR that was charged, was not the same rate as calculated according to the formula in the contract.

 

Keep digging midge....

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  • 1 month later...

I am still doing battle over this.

 

i sent them proof of payments and they have conceded that the DEC 06 payment left no arrears but say the amount owing still stands!

 

they have already added these and have added 2 months arrears management fees so debt now stands at £800.

 

i am just doing another letter to them but am still waiting for some missing statements to be sent by the bank.

 

I am sure I have read that the management fees are not to be added to the arrears but to the outstanding mortgage balance but cannot find anything concrete to quote at them.

 

I have also queried some failed dd fees that have been added as the bank statements do not show the dd having been called.

 

Their answer is they cannot confirm what date the dd was set up but fees still stand!

 

Any help on the adding of arrears fees would be appreciated.

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Taken from

http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/MCOB/12/4

 

MCOB 12.4 Arrears charges: regulated mortgage contracts1

 

MCOB 12.4.1 (1) A firm must ensure that any regulated mortgage contract that it enters into does not impose, and cannot be used to impose, a charge for arrears on a customer except where that charge is a reasonable estimate of the cost of the additional administration required as a result of the customer being in arrears. 2

(2) Paragraph (1) does not prevent a firm from entering into a regulated mortgage contract with a customer under which the firm may change the rate of interest charged to the customer from a fixed or discounted rate of interest to the firm's standard variable rate if the customer goes into arrears, providing that this standard variable rate is not a rate created especially for customers in arrears.

 

MCOB 12.4.2 A firm may calculate the same level of arrears charges for all regulated mortgage contracts where the customer is in arrears, rather than on the basis of the individual regulated mortgage contract with the particular customer.

 

MCOB 12.4.3 Firms are also subject to requirements on information provision and standards relating to arrears and repossessions (see MCOB 13 (Arrears and repossessions

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Well I think the onus is on them to prove that it is a fair fee for the administration for arrears - but not sure whether Capstone is a regulated mortgage?? so bumping your questions up.

 

I am still investigating

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi

 

After a very sleepless night I have been over and over my statements and after putting everything into a spreadsheet it appears that NOT only are they wrong about the missing payments I have OVERPAID.

 

I have now done a strong letter of complaint and told them to put it right and remove all charges and if they don't everything will go to the FOS.

 

I am so knackered and stressed by this and cannot believe the incompetence of this bloody company.

 

Sorry rant over

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So does that mean you have a case for getting them to wipe off the fees as incorrect rather than having to go down the fact that they are excessive?

 

And well done you for getting the spread sheet done.

 

give a shout if you need a hand with the letter you send to them.

 

Jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi

 

 

I don't know really. My statement is so full of silly amounts of money in and then failed and odd bits of interest and charges for dd not actually called it is a complete mess and even a math graduate would have problems:eek:

 

Thats why I thought I would go for the simple approach (just like me lol)

Their reply to me after sending proof of payments for the 2 payments they claimed had been missed AGREED but said the arrears stand but they could not pinpoint the months that were missed! Says it all really.

 

I am just hoping that by giving them the spreadsheet of my payments, all of which can be verified and a breakdown of what the payments should have worked out to will confuse them even more so that rather than risk getting the FOS examining their books they agree to wipe the charges and put the slate clean.

 

I have overpaid and it is very clear and my payment record for the last year has been perfect so I do believe all this hassle would come under the fsa TCF guidelines especially as they can't even work out their accounting for themselves.

 

They will get the letter tommorrow so we shall see.

 

Fingers crossed:D

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Letter received from Crapstone today.

 

They it appears they have swapped the amounts paid and due around and still insist I have arrears although a different amount now!

 

They have also sent another arrears statement with lots of £50 manual payments on and off!

 

I will go through it again and write to them saying that I am now referring it to the FOS as their figures are impossible to understand.

 

Can I ask that while it is with the FOS they refrain from chasing the debt and stop hassling me (phone calls started again yesterday?

 

What I need is a full audit done on the account but don't know how to get this done.

 

Any other suggestions?

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On going over my mortgage conditions I have found this :

 

Transfer Of The Company's rights

7. (a) the company may in its absolute discretion,at any time and without notice to the Borrower, transfer its rights under the Loan/Mortgage to any person whatsoever. Similarly, any person to whom the Company transfers its rights may decide to tranfer its right under the Loan/Mortgage to any person/persons whatsoever.

 

(b) the Borrower hereby consents to the transfer of the Company's rights under the lLoan/Mortgage conditions and agrees, to the extent that the Company transfers its rights to any person,that it will be bound to such a transferee in like manner and extent as it is bound to the Company. The borrower further consents to the extent that the Company agrees with any person to transfer its obligations to that person, that the Company will be released from further obligations to the Borrowere under the Loan/Mortgage.

 

the next bit is about passing on details.

 

Now I know that this is the clause that allows them to securitize the mortgage but in the first bit they say they do not have to tell me so surely that makes the bit in bold very dodgy because they say that they no longer have an obligation to me but if I don't know who owns my mortgage (which I don't) who am I suppose to contact about it.

I know that I deal with the administrators Crapstone but they are nothing more than debt collectors and I am not in contract with them so if I put in a complaint to the FOS in reality they is no company details (the owner) for them to contact about my mortgage conditions.

 

If this does not make sense sorry I am thinking aloud really.

 

I need to know how I can fight Crapstones over their poor record keeping and the fact that I feel there is not a contract between me and them but me and the owner of my mort and that surely I have a right to know who that is.

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Midge

 

Have taken a look at our mortgage conditions it doesn't mention anything about the transfer of companys rights,so in our eyes the mortgage is invalid or maybe even void, our we right in thinking this?

 

How is your case going on?

ANYBODY WHO NEEDS INFO ON YOUR LEHMANS MORTGAGE either SPML/PML/LMC/SPPL; the following are DIRECT tel#s, of the investigating & prosecuting organisations:

 

DO NOT say you are from CAG-only directly affected or a concerned citizen. 

1. Companies House: Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633 

2. CH : Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia(MD) for SPML/PML) @ 02920 380 643 

3. CH : Mark Youde(accounts compliance) @ 02920 380 955 

4. Companies Investigation Branch(CIB) : Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 (part of the Insolvency Service) investigating all the Lehman lenders 

5. CIB : Jeremy Pilcher('unofficial'-consumer/company lawyer) : tel#0207 637 6236  

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Subprimefees/#detail

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hi littledotty

 

I have spent the best part of today copying everything and have put it all in a complaint for the FOS.

 

Sent a letter to crapstone telling them this and asking them to stop demanding payments and to stop adding charges until Fos has dealt with it.

 

In my mort offer i have also found that commision to the broker I paid was £2445 and there was also an amount of £1375 to be paid by SPML in cash to them so have asked Fos to query this and also found my fees were £589 but I was actually charged another £150 so want that checked as well.

 

In your case if you can proove that the mort has been sold on then I would think you have a case as nothing in the T&C's but not 100% sure ask Supersleuth to check it out.

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Thanks alot for that midge,hope everything goes well for you in your case,fingers crossed for you

ANYBODY WHO NEEDS INFO ON YOUR LEHMANS MORTGAGE either SPML/PML/LMC/SPPL; the following are DIRECT tel#s, of the investigating & prosecuting organisations:

 

DO NOT say you are from CAG-only directly affected or a concerned citizen. 

1. Companies House: Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633 

2. CH : Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia(MD) for SPML/PML) @ 02920 380 643 

3. CH : Mark Youde(accounts compliance) @ 02920 380 955 

4. Companies Investigation Branch(CIB) : Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 (part of the Insolvency Service) investigating all the Lehman lenders 

5. CIB : Jeremy Pilcher('unofficial'-consumer/company lawyer) : tel#0207 637 6236  

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Subprimefees/#detail

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Thanks for that info midge,will contact supersleuth.

 

Hope everything goes ok for you,will keep my fingers crossed for you.

ANYBODY WHO NEEDS INFO ON YOUR LEHMANS MORTGAGE either SPML/PML/LMC/SPPL; the following are DIRECT tel#s, of the investigating & prosecuting organisations:

 

DO NOT say you are from CAG-only directly affected or a concerned citizen. 

1. Companies House: Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633 

2. CH : Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia(MD) for SPML/PML) @ 02920 380 643 

3. CH : Mark Youde(accounts compliance) @ 02920 380 955 

4. Companies Investigation Branch(CIB) : Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 (part of the Insolvency Service) investigating all the Lehman lenders 

5. CIB : Jeremy Pilcher('unofficial'-consumer/company lawyer) : tel#0207 637 6236  

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Subprimefees/#detail

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I put the following in my letter to Crapstone and for the FOS (as they are most interested in whether you have been treated fairly or not;))

 

I would like to point out that the FSA state poor practice in handling arrears as:

 

Poor practice

 

  • Prescribed information, such as the FSA information sheet on mortgage arrears, or statements of charges, are not sent to customers.
  • Regular statements of charges are not sent to customers whose properties have been taken into possession but have not yet been sold, or who have outstanding sale shortfalls attracting charges.
  • Arrears statements are difficult to understand, for example they:
    • include descriptions of fees which are inconsistent with the tariff of charges;
    • have multiple debit and credit entries for one fee when it is being added to the mortgage account; or
    • do not make clear whether the outstanding debt figure on the statement includes the arrears and associated charges.

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I see this is a bit of an old thread but i wanted to share my frustration with capstone –

i telephoned up to make my usual monthly payment in December 08 only to be told on top of my monthly payment i own £300 (and pence) due to their miss allocation of a payment - their systems allocated two half payments instead of one. This occurrence happened on their systems exactly a year ago to my original call.

I refused to pay unless a full statement was sent to me which to be fair they sent. I decided to raise an official complaint - they acknowledged this and offered £30 as a good will gesture - the next day i receive a letter with charges, £50 for not paying the outstanding balance of £300 even though my complaint was being dealt with

a second complaint letter was sent to them asking how can you give someone a good will gesture and then take it away with the other hand? I wouldn’t mind but it was their mistake with the misallocation - now in my letter i did agree we owed the payment and we would make a minimal payment per month £30 which they refused and said i have to pay £64. This is outrageous - the people answering the phone never seem to agree with one another nor with the letters they send out –

As it stands I am due to pay £64 per month on top of my regular payment however is there nothing in the law that advises over a certain amount of time either debt becomes void or has the levy towards a new payment plan case in our favour? –

Stupidly im in a fixed contract until May however as soon as i can i will be moving - the customer service is not helpful and in fact i find them rude and unhelpful - i thought the main point if an occurrence happens is the mortgage company ate suppose to help their customers?

 

Rant over :mad::confused::( -PurpleCrayon

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