Thread: CCA request for LLoyds bank

Trav, do I understand you are wanting a letter to send to the DCAs who are chasing an alleged debt whilst LTSB are still in default of your CCA request ?


Did they send any terms and conditions ? current and/or historic.

Send this letter to DCA/SCuM

Dear Sirs

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Account No:

Your letter dated (whenever) was received (whenever).

I am surprised that Lloyds TSB have instructed you in this matter.

This account is in dispute and has been since your client first failed to respond to a legal request made under the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 for a copy of the credit agreement to which your client alleges I am a signatory. My request which was dated (whenever) enclosed the legal fee of £1.00 and was received/signed for by LTSB on (whenever). I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you of their non compliance.

Their reluctance to provide this document leads me to believe they are no longer in possession of the original agreement, without which they are unable to take enforcement action or pass the account on to a third party.

I will enter into no further correspondence with you in this matter

Yours faithfully




To LTSB, I would write.

Dear Sirs,

Account in Dispute

Account No:

I wrote to you on (whenever) under the Consumer Credit Act, 1974 requesting a copy of the agreement to which you allege I am a signatory. Enclosed with that letter was the required fee.

You supplied a copy of a blank generic document with no prescribed terms. Neither were current or historic terms supplied. This unfortunately does not comply with my request.

Since then, I have been harrassed by DCA (you can name them) and your solicitor, Sechiari Clark & Mitchell.

If you are unable to provide a copy of the original document please say so. Meanwhile, having been in touch with the Office of Fair Trading regarding this matter, this is what they have to say.

“We have noted your concerns regarding the provision of a copy of the executed credit agreement and would like to make the following comments.

The general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner (in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed -sum credit, running account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed agreement and a statement of account on request.


If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days (not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all. This prevents enforcement with or without a court order.

We do understand your concerns in this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

A ‘true copy of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which became payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid by the debtor (the latter two must include the amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently, he cannot otherwise.

We note your concerns that in the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone’s liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it as an Unfair practice under section 25(2)d of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and to provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried of disputed.”

In addition to the above, I am sure you are aware of the need to preserve statutory documents :

Document Retention

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b).

As a loan agreement is active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the agreement/application etc) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated - thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years - after the end of the relevant accounting period. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6) which states:

"The duty to preserve records under this paragraph includes a duty to preserve all supporting documents relating to the items mentioned in sub-paragraph (5)(a) and (b)."

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007. “

Please note, that I will not communicate with you any further on this matter, unless of course you decide to proceed to litigation. In which case I would expect a properly executed Regulated Credit Card Agreement that contains all of the Prescribed Terms within the four corners of it, attached to the claim form.

Yours sincerely,

HTH

They may well have satisfied your request under the CCA 1974. However, they will without a question require the original or an audited copy contianing both yours and ltsb signatures on a document that contains the prescribed terms within the four corners. This could be a doublesided document as long as the proper references to "overleaf" are mentioned.

All the above proves is that they have the ability to print off prescribed terms which may or may not have applied at the time the account was set up.

I find it hard to believe that those 7 pages were on the back of an agreement !! And.. where is the link between those and the agreement.. hmmmmm ??

Originally Posted by Travesty

Thanks again Citizen! So, if I get you right, the proper format for a cca is a single sheet of a4, printable on both sides, with sigs from all concerned.
Also that the 7 pages sent amount to nothing more than a set of T&C?

IMHO, yep You might find that some companies supply the agreement/application on two pages, there should be a link of some sort (barcode/reference number) that would prove they were copied from the original document.

Hiya
I've finally heard back from Allied international. Basicaly they've sent me a compliments slip, the nerve of it lol, with what appears to be the worst pgotocopy I've seen in my life! saying that, it does seem to be a copy of the original agreement from 2005, so after much tweeking in photoshop to make them legible....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...titled-3-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...titled-4-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...titled-5-2.jpg
Is that me buggered? I was under the impression that on isueing a new card that I had to complete a new agreement; I was issued a new card twice after this, once in 07 and once at the start of 08, no new signatures were given.
As always, thanks for any advice

Bump
Is there any way I can check through what they've sent me myself? What do I need to look out for that would make this agreement flawed?

Hi travesty,

Ummm, TBH.. I cant read it

I see that it is a platinum card.

You need to look for prescribed terms.. are they all there (if you can read your copy)?

If the copy is totally illegible then they havent complied... however if they do "discover" one a little down the line and it does contain all the necessary bits then you are back at square one.

Have they sent you the terms and conditions, both historic and current ?

Has your card number/ card style changed at any time during the contract so far.

Reading back over your thread, I see you were sent a letter from SCuM, ltsb's solicitors

However. This year I have had to miss out payments on the card a number of times. As soon as I did, they began to harrass me by phone at every oportunity.So I thought I'd send a rquest for my cca.
That was 2 weeks ago now, and yesterday I was sent a letter from Sechari clark and mitchel formaly demanding me to pay all the money owed, now at 1400, or further action will be taken. They also add that a default has been issued, of which I was totaly unaware.

I suspect that a Default notice was NEVER sent because this is a letter they send out with unfailing regularity. The fact that they have issued a formal demand without sending a Default notice could at some time down the road create a problem for them. Do make sure you keep all your letters and the envelopes they come in.

Meanwhile, have a read of this post in respect of default notices..

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...t-2166205.html

You will find a couple of good links to threads you would be advised to read up on.

HTH