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I was dismissed due to gross misconduct which I repeatedly denied. There were three different grounds
H&S standards were below average and I was asked to fix problem in a very short period of time. An inspection was held when I was away on my annual leave for two weeks and took place on the 12th day of my absence. I was told about this inspection three days after returning to work and only two days were given to finish these task. Due to repairs in the shop the water supply was cut down and tasks were virtually impossible to complete. A final written warning was given. Also another warning was given due to not controlling the cost of labour which from my point of view was difficult to achieve due to the contracted hours of my staff members and also maintaining standards for the brand name. I appealed against these final written warnings for H&S and cost of the labour and they were overturned; even so, I found that my boss had lied, saying that he had informed me on the very first day I returned to work. I have a proof that he lied, as the email was sent three days after I came back to work and also on the first day of the disciplinary he had admitted that I was told three days later of the inspection and it is reflected on the written notes that were taken and signed by all.
Same day I was given another disciplinary for abusive and threatening behaviour towards a member of staff by means of text messages. During the investigation no statement was presented from the accuser and questions were asked yes or no. I asked them to see evidence from my side but it was denied. I asked them to give me more time to go through the whole case try to prepare myself for this allegation but it was denied. Then I told them that I wished to resign but I was told that I could not resign as a disciplinary case was under process.
The very next day I was paid my monthly wages into my account but after few hours my whole wages were called back from my account due to shortage of some cash from the shop float. That money had been given to a staff member as advance wages. Because the shop computer was broken and my boss was on holidays the paperwork was not done according to company's policy. Same day I went to my doctor as I was feeling so stressed out about the whole situation and was diagnosed that I have depression and was advice not to go to work for at least few months and take anti depression medication for at least 6 months and also advice to seek further help through counselling. I was paid after five days with a deduction of money and also further £95 to change the locks of the shop.
While I was off sick I made a grievance against my boss for taking my wages without informing me in advance as it had caused me real time financial difficulties and I ended up paying over £550 bank charges for returned direct debits.
After two months I had to return to work (even though I wasn't completely recovered) due to the reduction of my earnings and informed HR so they could pursue the disciplinary for threatening behaviour, not completing necessary paperwork for cash handling and the grievance against my boss. I was given a date for all three thing on the same day and these were the outcomes.
A decision was made in my favour for the grievance against my boss for recalling my wages which caused my financial difficulties and was agreed that these charges would be paid into my account.
I was dismissed for the threatening and abusive behaviour by means of text messages and they also accused me of sexual harassment. Again, no statement for the accusation was shown to me and no evidence was shown. Also, some of my evidence was misrepresented and used against me.
The very next day I was offered a new job with a competitor company and I also I sent an appeal letter to my ex employers as I didn't agree with their decision. Now, even though he appeal is still under process, a verbal bad reference was given to my new employer causing dismissal from my new job.
A few days ago I received my P45 and a copy of payslip showing the money I was given due to unfair recall of my wages but also a salary adjustment of £300 taken back from the total. No Breakdown was given and also my remaining holidays were not included.
I want to take them to court as with this kind of treatment and reference I will never get a job. I worked for this company two years and I have to show this into my CV. I just want to know if I am fully following the process correctly, also if I should try to get a copy of their verbal reference from my next employer (as they and the employment agency have asked my ex employer to send them a written one and they are still waiting for it).
Update:
I asked my last employer for a copy of reference under data protection law and this was there reply.
As discussed during our meeting in xyz, It was a conversation with a (my ex employer) representative; I believe therefore that you have mistakenly assumed that it was recorded.
I have, unfortunately, no documents in my possession that I can submit.
I hope that you will find a satisfactory solution with the (my ex employer).
I am bit cofussed here. I was sacked due to this verbal reference and nothing was recorded. Any help?
Update:
I asked my last employer for a copy of reference under data protection law and this was there reply.
As discussed during our meeting in xyz, It was a conversation with a (my ex employer) representative; I believe therefore that you have mistakenly assumed that it was recorded.
I have, unfortunately, no documents in my possession that I can submit.
I hope that you will find a satisfactory solution with the (my ex employer).
I am bit cofussed here. I was sacked due to this verbal reference and nothing was recorded. Any help?
Ask for a complete copy of your Personnel file, and copies of all documents electronic or otherwise that are pertaining to you, under the DP Act.
Dave.
If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!
Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.
If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.
I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big
oily truck driver and all I know has been learned within the
Consumer Action Group.
Thank you Diskmandave, I will try one more time but surely I will not be able to receve this on time. This was the request I made to them and hoped it would have been resolved. My hearing is on Monday and it looks like this case going to end up to ET.
Dear Sir,
I have received your letter of the xxth of November 2008 confirming your decision to cease my employment as General Manager for xxx. According to that letter the decision was taken following a verbal reference below the company's expectations. I understand and respect your decision in the circumstances and have no wish to make any complaint against your procedure.
However, I am aware that a proper record is to be maintained of all references, verbal of written, therefore I'd like to request from you a copy of that record as I am now appealing against several decisions taken by my previous employer "xxx" and I have reason to believe that such a reference was given in bad faith and it could affect any future employment that I may seek. I am sure you are aware that I am entitled to such information under the Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 and also that, employment law within EU countries states that where employment is offered subject to satisfactory references, the offer will only be allowed to be withdrawn if the reference process shows substantial grounds that are of enough weight to allow the recruiting organisation not to employ the candidate. As I have mentioned before, I have no wish to make a complaint against Tragus, but in this case, the fact that a false or negligent reference has been issued, is not only illegal, but damages you as well as me.
If you need further information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible. Also, if you do not normally handle these requests, please pass this letter to the appropriate department.
Yours Failtfully,
xyz
Well tomorrow morning I am going to the CAB office and let's hope I can get some extra help from them as well. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to make any suggessions I will be more than happy to receive them. Thanks.
The company who withdrew their offer of employment are quite within their rights to do so. They can dismiss you within the first 12 months without giving a reason (whatever your reference from the previous employer was like).
If you were dismissed for 'threatening and abusive behaviour' (amongst other things) I can understand that you were given a poor reference which might affect your future employment at another company. I'm not sure what sort of reference you would expect in the circumstances?
As you have said nothing to the contrary, I assume that you did actually send threatening and abusive texts? You seem to only be saying that perhaps you were unhappy with the way the disciplinary hearing went or the procedure?
Hello p_cas,
I went to the CAB office and it is not possible to get a copy of reference from my new employers as it was a verbal reference and they didn't keep a record. Yes I did sent a text but it was not at all threatening and abusive but yes it was a bit rude. It was a reply of a conversation and the whole conversation was afterwards sent by me to my boss through email but no action was taken from his side. Now, after 5 months, they are using this text against me. If it was so threatening and abusive they should have taken this step long time ago. I am bit unhappy with the disciplinary hearing as well and felt I been harassed and bullied by them and I am thinking to take further steps by filing a complaint against my manager. They are making mistakes from their side but they are trying to hide many facts which are against them or favour me.
I had my appeal hearing yesterday. I gave opinion on the whole case and insisted that dismissal is a very harsh decision on my circumstances. Regarding the reference they assumed that my new employer was making it up, but when I presented them the email giving proof that I am telling the truth they asked me for a copy of that particular email for further investigation. They also asked me what I want from them. Well I want my job back that what I said, but also reminded them about current situation between my boss and myself, I also had shown them a complaint letter against my boss for bullying through the following means:
• Repeatedly putting unreasonable pressure on subordinates, such as imposing unrealistic deadlines.
• “Picking on” a colleague
• Shouting and aggressive criticism
This I will be sending by post tomorrow.
I do have some evidence for these allegations. Do yo think I should wait for my appeal decision or send them this grievance? Also anyone predict its outcome?
Hello Bigmac Versus;
I really do not wish to work for them anymore but I am running out of options. They gave a bad referance even they told me on my last appeal they only confirm name, start and end date of employment. But in my case someone is taking things personally. Here is the copy of my complaint and it might give you some idea:
After much consideration I have decided to make a formal complaint against Mr. ABC for harassment and bullying as defined by the company for the following counts:
Repeatedly putting unreasonable pressure on subordinates, such as imposing unrealistic deadlines.
“Picking on” a colleague
Shouting and aggressive criticism
On the count of putting unreasonable pressure on subordinates by Mr. ABC I would like to point out that when I took over the management of XYZ in February 2008, I was told by ABC that my cost of labour should be of £1,850, later he reduced this amount to £1,500, then he further reduced it to £1,250 and then again to £1,080. While I know and understand that the cost of labour is related to percentage of sales, a reduction of £770 (40% of the original amount) off the cost of labour in six months is quite difficult to attain. If we take into consideration that just my own cost is £800 a week, some simple maths tell us that I would have £280 a week to pay kitchen and waiting staff (and some of them have 30 hours a week contracts that have to be honoured) making the task not just difficult but impossible. At this point let me mention that, as per ABC’s instructions, I have been running the restaurant without any assistant/deputy manager or supervisor and when I suggested to ABC that I dismiss the chef (one of those on a 30 hours contract) and work in the kitchen myself, which would obviously cut the cost, he told me not to do it. Even so, my Forecast for the 25th to 31st of August and from the 1st to the 7th of September was less than £1100.
On the count of “Picking on” a colleague I would like to mention the disciplinary meeting held by Mr ABC on the 28th of August. In it I was accused of failing:
“Hygiene and cleaning standards of the business as witnessed by Mr. ABC on Friday 22nd of August. This includes several out of date products, build up of food debris under counters, products from non nominated suppliers, kitchen staff wearing trainers and dirty staff changing areas.”
I had been away on holidays from Tuesday 5th of August till Monday 18th; the Restaurant closes on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays and on Thursday 21st the Restaurant was closed as well due to important repairs being carried out and the water supply being cut off. Therefore, if the hygiene and cleaning of the restaurant was not up to ABC’s standards, he should have taken up this matter with whomever he had running the shifts during my absence. After I appealed his decision to give me a final written warning, he told Ms PG that he had informed me on Monday 18th of August. This is a lie as you can confirm from his own words on the notes signed by him of my disciplinary meeting. He also lied to Ms. PG when he said he had informed me on Monday that I need not go to the Area meeting on Wednesday so I could clean the restaurant. Contrary to what Mr. ABC said, August’s area meeting took place on Thursday 21st and not on Wednesday 20th, and I was only told not to go the day before. I am sure that can be easily verified as there should be records of that meeting.
Regarding the matter of products from non nominated suppliers: this was being done with Mr. ABC’ full knowledge and approval with the purpose of cutting costs - this restaurant has very little movement, if we order eggs from supplier, they’ll send us a box of 40, probably around 38 of which would go to waste, therefore, it is cheaper and more convenient to buy them from the supermarket, the same thing happens with other products and we do not have a coke draught machine in the restaurant, so ABC had also instructed me to buy two-litre bottles from the shop instead of Brakes’ more expensive 500ml. ones.
Regarding the matter of kitchen staff wearing trainers, appropriate action had been taken the very next day of the occurrence: On the 23rd of August the member of staff in question was issued with an invitation to a disciplinary hearing to be chaired by Mr. ABC and Mr. BCD as note taker, for the 28th of August. He decided to resign on the spot. This can also be easily verified by simply checking the staff member’s file. Mr. Phillips was aware of this (obviously, as he was to chair the hearing) and I informed him of the staff member’s resignation immediately.
Regarding the dirty staff changing areas, I again say that Steve should have taken the matter up with whoever was in charge during my absence.
I am sure that all this accusations count as “picking on” a colleague, as Mr ABC was well aware that the issues in question either were unrelated to me (Hygiene and cleaning standards), happened with Mr. ABC’ own approval (products from non nominated suppliers) or were moot as appropriate action had already been taken; also, the fact that it can be proven that he blatantly lied ought to count in my favour.
On the count of shouting and aggressive criticism, not only did he shout, but he also threw things at me on Friday 22nd of August. He was angry at the state of the kitchen and started picking things out of the fridge and throwing them in my direction. He threw at me about six or seven items. I am aware that the only person in the kitchen at the time, apart from us, was the chef that resigned the next day and it is now my word against his, so I would not be surprised if he denied it. I must say, in all fairness, that he did apologise afterwards, but his behaviour was still inexcusable.
Added to the aforementioned issues is the matter of his not allowing me to resign from my position after my hearing on the 28th of August. He informed me, with Mr. BCD as a witness, that I could not resign in the middle of a disciplinary procedure. Instead of allowing me to leave the job in a dignified manner he made me go through all this humiliation and aggravation without any reason. I was only made aware of my right to resign even during a disciplinary procedure during my appeal meeting with Ms. PG.
I would also like to make a complaint against Mr. ABC for not following proper procedures regarding my wages on two counts:
On the 29th of August 2008 my whole pay was recalled without any notification; in the end, he had to pay me back £551 for charges that I had incurred due to his ineptitude. As I had not agreed to this deduction, it was illegal for him to do so without my consent. Furthermore, as I had not formally resigned from my post and had not received any official notification of suspension, I was at the time still working for xyz plc; there was no reason why he could not have deducted the monies from my next pay.
At the end of October I received my final pay slip and on the 11th of November my P45, he had neglected to notify HR that I was still owed three days holidays and that amounted to some £300, I notified HR of this matter on the 12th of November and he has agreed that I am indeed owed this money. I have not yet received it though.
That sounds awfull, this person has some anger issues which need dealt with.
How can you be held responsible for a dirty kitchen when your on holiday, thats a no-brainer.
Can you contact the chef who left regarding the throwing of items by this person and get a statement from him saying so.
Regarding the products from non nominated suppliers, you said this was in full agreement with him so is he now saying it wasnt? are you to get everything in writing before following his orders incase he changes his mind at a later date, surely not.
You took action regarding the suitable footwear, are they saying you did not follow the correct disiplinary procedures regarding this.
Just a thought but with all the cost cutting they were doing it was putting you in an impossible position so have you considered they wanted to get rid of you also and were looking for anything to use against you.
Yes I did consider that they wanted to get rid of me and looking anything against me but it is very difficult to prove. Today I have received there reply regarding the complaint I made against my ex manager. They have invited me to attend the meeting on Monday the 8th of Dec. And regarding my appeal decision it says:
"On another matter and in relation to your recent appeal meeting with myself I am writing to inform you that I intend to suspend my decision regarding your appeal until I have discussed and investigated your complaints. I will then write to you with a full response on all matters."
What do you think what will happen next? Do you think I will get my job back or any other kind of compromise with them? Or it will be a clean wash? If you have any suggestions for this meeting on Monday? Thanks.
Well the appeal will not be decided until this complaint has been dealt with which I feel is the correct way of doing things as it was the reason for your departure.
Dismissal from my new job
the paperwork was not done according to company's policy. Same day I went to my doctor as I was feeling so stressed out about the whole situation and was diagnosed that I have depression and was advice not to go to work for at least few months and take anti depression medication for at least 6 months and also advice to seek further help through counselling. I was paid after five days with a deduction of money and also further £95 to change the locks of the shop.
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Originally Posted by epman
