Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
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a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I have spent time reading into the various postings in this section to find a similar case to mine. There seem to be general agreement that private companies issuing pcn are in fact issuing an invoice and that this is eventually unenforceable. The suggestion is usually to disregard any letter received asking for the payment of the charge, even when the companies resort to use a debt collector.
I am however tempted to appeal the issue of the ticket, and Lidl as the company ultimately resonsible for this kind of actions. However I am not sure how strong my case would be. Here are the facts:
I usually shop at Lidl Barking and I use public transport. Occasionally I use the car. This morning I used my car as I was alone with my 3 year old daughter and did not notice anything new at the car park from compared with previous visits.
1- The Car park at Lidl in Barking is manned and in the past it has been customary to park without paying the £1 refundable charge while shopping at the supermarket as the space is very small the Parking attendant can monitor who actually parks and shops in the store.
2- This morning as usual I stopped at the kiosk and mentioned I was going to shop. Money was not asked and I proceeded to the parking bay.I vcan't see how I am breaking a supposed contract if the parking attendant didn't mention that I HAD to pay. I wouldn't have refused, as i genuinelly parked and went shopping in the store, and the £1 would have been refunded.
3- On leaving the shop I found the Civil Penalty Chatge Notice on the screen of my car. I checked the time of issue and it claimed that it was issued one hour earlier than my arrival at the store (perhaps the issuer did not adjust his watch last week to standard GMT time). I can't prove it but definitely I was not there at the time claimed on the note. There must be CCTV cameras in town to show that I was elsewhere at that time.
4- I contacted the store manager and complained and apologetically he suggested I wrote to Lidl HQ as he has no power over the parking at his store !!!
Could I appeal on the ground that I was not there at the time stated - even if i can't prove that?
Would it be better to argue that since the parking is manned, no £1 charge was asked and therfore nothing had been refused. (incidentally, the arking assistant in charge at the time I arrived had left by the time I left the store).
Can I appeal on the ground that they acted against what was customary at that store and therefore no break of contract has been done.
Can I argue on all these ground?
Finally, should I pay first and argue later or refuse to pay alltogether?
Re: Civil Penalty Charge notice - Should I appeal???
Hi hemic & welcome to CAG.Are there any signs in the car park & what were you cited for on the ticket?If "he" hadn't put his clock back then the ticket would be an hour later than it should be not an hour earlier but if the time is too early then it is obviously wrong (if that makes sense on a Saturday evg!).
Re: Civil Penalty Charge notice - Should I appeal???
There is no appeals process. You will just get back a standard 'appeal rejected' template letter. Do not get into a dialogue with these people - no private company will do themselves out of a profit by listening to your reasoned arguments. They wouldn't stay in business long if they did.
Finally, should I pay first and argue later or refuse to pay alltogether?
If you pay you will never see your money again. Guaranteed.
The time of issue is definitely wrong, as I was not there at the time. However, how can i prove it?
It's not up to you to proove anything. It's up to them, and as soon as they start using fraudulent terms such as 'civil penalty', you know they're never going to take you to court. Private companies have no power in law to issue penalties.
Here's what to do:
• do not pay
• do not contact them
• ignore any letters you receive
• they will give up and go away after 4 or 5
You need to harden up in your attitude. You are being [problem]med here - feel free to write a letter of disgust to Lidl, but do not engage with the parking company.
Re: Civil Penalty Charge notice - Should I appeal???
Please do not entertain the idea of communicating with them in any way. Absolutely ignore them and eventually they will realise they aren't getting anywhere and will focus their time and energies on some other gullible person. For your peace of mind, worst case scenario, IF it went all the way (it won't) you could just pay the basic fine IF you get an actual summons through (you won't!). I used to reply using some of the template letters from other posts and they go away but now don't even bother, all the demand letters and lawyers letters go straight in the bin. I have avoided 14 tickets this way, it's a kind of sport with me now, sad I know! Maybe i'll get a life instead. You certainly shouldn't let anyone bully you into paying something they can NEVER enforce because your last line of defence no matter what is that they cannot prove who the DRIVER was. They cannot pursue the registered keeper, just the actual driver.
Re: Civil Penalty Charge notice - Should I appeal???
Could I appeal on the ground that I was not there at the time stated - even if i can't prove that?
yes you can:- but it will be rejected
Would it be better to argue that since the parking is manned, no £1 charge was asked and therfore nothing had been refused. (incidentally, the arking assistant in charge at the time I arrived had left by the time I left the store).
well you could; but it will be rejected
Can I appeal on the ground that they acted against what was customary at that store and therefore no break of contract has been done.
yes you can:- but it will be rejected
Can I argue on all these ground?
of course you can; but they will all be rejected
Finally, should I pay first and argue later or refuse to pay alltogether?
No NO and NEVER!!!
If you pay anything you will never see a penny of it back again.
The time of issue is definitely wrong, as I was not there at the time. However, how can i prove it?
you don't have to prove you weren't there, they have to prove you were. They can only write to the RK of the vehicle who may not have been there at the time they state, the time you were there (as we and they have no idea if you are the RK of the vehicle which of course you must never confirm on the forum either ) and mayb ethe RK has never ever been to that store.
Civil Penalty Charge notice - Should I appeal???
are in fact issuing an invoice and that this is eventually unenforceable. The suggestion is usually to disregard any letter received asking for the payment of the charge, even when the companies resort to use a debt collector
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) and mayb ethe RK has never ever been to that store.