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Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Hello there,
This is the third time I've tried to post this, for some reason the previous two attempts never got approved. And typically I didn't save anything that I wrote the first time, so I'm going to try again as I'm desperate for any help. Fingers crossed.
I'm going to paste in the letter that I sent to Westminster which will paint the picture.
On the date of the fine, the section of Lexington Street between Broadwick Street and Beak Street was completely blocked by roadworks, except for its pavements.
I turned into Lexington street from Broadwick Street and stopped right by the road works, while I waited for my girlfriend to come and meet me from her office, situated at the bottom of Lexington Street. She would be walking along the Lexington Street pavement to come towards me.
While I waited, I remained seated on the motorbike with the engine running. As soon as I saw my girlfriend appearing from behind the roadworks I got up, turned the engine off, left the keys in the ignition and walked towards her, 2 meters away from the bike, holding my helmet in my hand with my back to the bike.
The enlarged image will give you an idea of the situation.
We spoke for about 1 minute and as we said goodbye (we had met to exchange some keys) I turned towards the bike. A parking attendant was standing next to my bike, writing up a fine.
I hope this is enough information for you to understand that this parking fine has been given under unreasonable terms. Having an attendant creep up on my bike as soon as I get up for one minute while I'm clearly its owner is in my view an outrage.
Furthermore, the time that had elapsed between me getting off the bike and the attendant issuing the ticket was such that it is not possible for the attendant not to have seen me sat on the bike in the first place, which was his defense at the time.
I have witnesses to this effect, and look forward to hearing your response.
Now, Westminster refused the appeal on the grounds that the street has a yellow line and is in a no-loading zone, barely considering the facts that I presented to them (I can't quote directly as I don't have the letter on me at the moment).
So I'd like to know if I realistically have any chance of winning if I make a formal representation?
The case has dragged on for a while now, and the outstanding bill currently stands at £180. While I've got myself to this stage, I may as well pursue. Not much else to lose. Or should I just drop it, knowing that sense and reason (which are the grounds on which I'm appealing) don't mean anything to the council?
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Well that side of the story is a bit complicated actually, which I won't go into right now, but I explained the situation to the council and they said that given the circumstances I could still make a formal representation.
In short, I had never received the Notice to Owner, thanks to clerical problems with the registration of my bike...
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Originally Posted by davidterranova
Well that side of the story is a bit complicated actually, which I won't go into right now, but I explained the situation to the council and they said that given the circumstances I could still make a formal representation.
In short, I had never received the Notice to Owner, thanks to clerical problems with the registration of my bike...
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
hmm, which one's that?
Here's where I'm at so far:
-I sent an informal appeal
-I received an informal letter as response
-Any other correspondence has been going to a wrong address (vehicle's previous owner). I only found this out today, as the previous owner got in touch with me to let me know.
So now I'm ready to make a Formal Representation, and if that doesn't work I hope to move it on to the third party adjudicator.
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Ah!
Well this is the problem, all the mail (apart from their initial response, which the address that I specified when submitting the appeal online) has been going to a different address, so at this moment in time I have no idea what they've sent me and what they haven't sent me.
So to make a formal representation I need these other documents?
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
A bit late now but when appealing against a pcn for parked where waiting is not permitted, it is best not to write a letter stating you were actually waiting!
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
You can't make formal reps until the Council officially return the process to the Notice to Owner stage - at which point the penalty reverts to £120 as well.
To do this you make a Stat Dec to overturn the 'Order for Recovery' issued by the county court (centralised at Northampton TEC). If you've not been getting mail then we don't know if there is one yet.
Obviously a more advanced case but the procedure principal is the same.
So first port of call is Northampton TEC to ask if OfR issued.
-
You need to establish exactly what has happened so far because it can get complicated. Interesting comment from the Council - you may make reps? Does that mean Charge Cert is cancelled? Does it mean they won't enforce it so there is no OfR yet? Who knows?
-
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Right!
thanks very much for the info, Well, I'll be getting hold of the old post in the morning so I'll have a clearer idea of what to do after that.
But separate from all of this, do you think I have a leg to stand on with my case? Would a 3rd party adjudicator take into account my facts in a reasonable way, or will it just end abruptly at the fact that it's a no-loading zone?
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Originally Posted by davidterranova
Right!
thanks very much for the info, Well, I'll be getting hold of the old post in the morning so I'll have a clearer idea of what to do after that.
But separate from all of this, do you think I have a leg to stand on with my case? Would a 3rd party adjudicator take into account my facts in a reasonable way, or will it just end abruptly at the fact that it's a no-loading zone?
On the circumstances alone the contravention did take place, you were parked on a waiting/loading restriction. Having the engine running or sitting on the bike is no defence I'm afraid, all you would be allowed to do is stop long enough to drop off or pick up a passenger. Having said that as Neil says it depends on correct paperwork and signage.
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Well, the thing I was hoping to rely on was that the roadworks created an unordinary situation. So when I stopped at the top of the roadworks' railing, I was right in the middle of Lexington street, slightly more towards the left hand side, but definitely not on either pavement.
Obviously if the roadworks weren't there I wouldn't even have been able to stop smack bang in the middle of the road.
At the time, I just saw roadworks and stopped right there, a place that simply looked out of order, a street completely blocked up.
Obviously the fact that I was in the middle of the street as opposed to the pavement wasn't calculated, but if it could help the case then I might take that into judgement (sorry, this is getting difficult to explain in writing).
But going to my original point... will the disruption caused by the roadworks not affect parking laws?
In writing it sounds like I really have no case, even I can tell, but on the day it just felt unreasonable to the extreme..
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Well, the clerical error was the shortest way for me to describe this: my bike is still registered to the previous owner, who still hasn't sent me the paperwork to make the switch.
regarding the lines, and if I understand what you're trying to get at: have a look at this:http://www.davidterranova.com/files/...e/mapLarge.jpg
It's probably not scaled correctly, but if a car tried to park with its nose against the roadworks, it would have stuck out into broadwick street: there wasn't enough space for a car to park on here.
So you could probably only see about half a car's length in yellow line, which then disappeared into the roadworks.
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
It's the previous owner's problem not yours.
The previous owner was entitled to respond to the NTO with the statutory defence that they were not the owner at the time of the contravention.
Tough titty on them!
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Ok, that's interesting. That would at least give me a breather in terms of me being so overdue on making a formal representation, and possibly take it back to £120?
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Don't even think that's the case.
As I understand it the council correctly served papers on the "person appearing to them to be the owner" that person ignored the docs (probably thinking that because they had sold the bike were not liable).
They had an opportunity to contest but failed to take it.
Unless they are prepared to lie (and get away with it) on a Stat Dec I think they are stuffed.
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
Re: Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
Are the documents you have on this pcn addressed to you or the previous owner?
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
Westminster: parking in a street blocked by roadworks?
has been given under unreasonable terms. Having an attendant creep up on my bike as soon as I get up for one minute while I'm clearly its owner is in my view an outrage.
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Originally Posted by davidterranova
