Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    may have two CCJ's put on my file in the future as I am leaving the UK AND |Europe to live abroad and both my landlord and my bank will ask me for money. Landlord has already filed a claim but how do I let the court know I live abroad now? Simply send them a letter (as then- I'm told' the case can't go ahead until I return to the UK)? So there would never be a CCJ as I could not attend the hearing anyway. Would the court throw the case out as it is unenforcable?

    What about banks that will soon start looking for me. I have not left them a forwarding address. Shall I send them a letter with my new NON european address, so that they undersatnd they cannot easily get a CCJ on me? Or will they then declare me bankrupt. But that costs them money and then they will never be able to claim any money from me (at least after a year) so they are not likely to do that...?!

    How would my creditors and the DCAicon's proceed? Would they try and find me abroad IF I do not let them know where I am? Would they look for accounts I may have in Europe (which I do)- could they seize my money in a European account (not in the UK but in Western Europe) BEFORE aCCJ is even issued (I guess not). If they can get a CCJ issued against me could they then seize accounts in Europe?

    PS: If the court is aware I am abroad outside Europe would they throw the case out?

    Thanks!!!

    Similar Threads:

  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    Hi

    I have read all sorts of entries and threats on this issue and am pretty well informed but there is one question which has not been answered:

    The situation: Mr X owes UK bank 10k, so far payments have been made on time but now Mr X informs Bank that he is moving to a Non European country, thus the debtor can prove the bank has been informed so that they couldn't try and pretend they do not know that and still go ahead trying to a CCJ served at the last known address- which even if they did would be an uncontested one.
    Mr X stops payments. UK bank can NOT get a CCJ issued as debtor not a UK resident anymore, thus they couldn't even get an EEO (if the debtor lived in Europe). Debtor now lives in Azerbaidjan. In a nutshell, assuming everything I have just said is indeed correct, a pursuit would be very difficult if not impossible.

    Now my question: Although Mr X now lives abroad there is a savings account in his name in a European country. It's with another bank, of course.
    Can they find out about it and somehow try and get their hands on that money? They would have to go through the courts, surely? But how, if the debtor lives abroad? Would that money be safe?

    Please help.

    Thanks


  3. #3
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    Monty2007 Informative Monty2007 Informative Monty2007 Informative Monty2007 Informative Monty2007 Informative

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,398

    Default Re: Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    Quote Originally Posted by ukman View Post
    Hi

    I have read all sorts of entries and threats on this issue and am pretty well informed but there is one question which has not been answered:

    The situation: Mr X owes UK bank 10k, so far payments have been made on time but now Mr X informs Bank that he is moving to a Non European country, thus the debtor can prove the bank has been informed so that they couldn't try and pretend they do not know that and still go ahead trying to a CCJ served at the last known address- which even if they did would be an uncontested one.
    Mr X stops payments. UK bank can NOT get a CCJ issued as debtor not a UK resident anymore, thus they couldn't even get an EEO (if the debtor lived in Europe). Debtor now lives in Azerbaidjan. In a nutshell, assuming everything I have just said is indeed correct, a pursuit would be very difficult if not impossible.

    Now my question: Although Mr X now lives abroad there is a savings account in his name in a European country. It's with another bank, of course.
    Can they find out about it and somehow try and get their hands on that money? They would have to go through the courts, surely? But how, if the debtor lives abroad? Would that money be safe?

    Please help.

    Thanks
    Note: Azerbaijan is NOT in Europe - its the largest and most populous country in the South Caucasus, located partially in Eastern Europe and partially in Western Asia.

    I found this picture of Azerbaijan on Wikipedia and it looks grim, I would personally pay up or take the CCJ........... it looks like they are shovelling mud but I might be wrong.




  4. #4
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    twofoot Informative twofoot Informative twofoot Informative

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,201

    Default Re: Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    Are you a film director, making cartoons? Sounds too far fetched but the money would be safe as houses. Having said that, bricks & mortar are not safe at the mo and the yanks can get men on the moon so who knows.


  5. #5
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter Authoritative ScabHunter's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2008
    I am in
    a rather angry mood
    Posts
    1,552

    Default Re: Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    Are you sure that is a picture of Azerbaijan?

    It looks like a load of Crap One employees trying to find their old CCAs.

    SH

    All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

    If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

    I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

    If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

    _________________________ _________________________ __

    LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

    A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1840093

    A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1813490

    A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1863523

    A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1850119


    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    I appreciate your humour guys, but any serious answers please?
    PS: I know Azerbaidjan is not in Europe- that's what I wrote in my original email. That's the whole point- the debtor moves to a NON European country, so can UK banks get their hands on savings in a savings account in another European country like France or Germany, that's the question. Please read my original post above again. I wouls appreciate a serious answer please.


  7. #7
    Basic Account Holder UnmoderatetheNet Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2008
    Posts
    817

    Default Re: Moving to a Non European country with UK debt

    Contrary to what DCAiconís tell you and they do indeed come out with the most laughable rubbish, they have little to no powers and even less in England. Arresting a different account with or without a court order is something that is simply not possible.

    As for recovery in a non-European/ European country, they havenít got a pray, not a pray.

    For many reasons such as foreign jurisdiction, cost, more cost, more foreign jurisdiction, throw in a bit unenforceable.

    I challenge anyone on here to disclaim my comments with actual evidence.

    Some DCAís do have international offices that can trace and send scary letters but when faced with unenforceable recover watch them scuttle away

    We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?
    Bring back free speech we miss it!
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Complicated question- have a go!

    Mr X owes Lloydsicon TSB money and disappears.

    Mr X has a savings account with Deutsche Bank in another European country.

    Are Lloyds TSB and Deutsche Bank affiliated? I hear they might merge...?

    Would that mean Lloyds can simply take the money out of the savings account as they would then be affiliated/ merged/ one company?

    They would probably still have to go through a legal procedure, right?
    If Mr X lives outside of Europe though, any CCJ would be unenforcable, is that correct?


  9. #9
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed Authoritative spamheed's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2007
    I am in
    Gods Country - Northumberland
    Posts
    3,170

    Default Re: Complicated question- have a go!

    Quote Originally Posted by ukman View Post
    Mr X owes Lloydsicon TSB money and disappears.

    Mr X has a savings account with Deutsche Bank in another European country.

    Are Lloyds TSB and Deutsche Bank affiliated? I hear they might merge...? This was on the cards, but with the Input from the Governemtn, it may not be allowed, if only because TSB directors would be allowed huge bonuses

    Would that mean Lloyds can simply take the money out of the savings account as they would then be affiliated/ merged/ one company? No

    They would probably still have to go through a legal procedure, right?
    If Mr X lives outside of Europe though, any CCJ would be unenforcable, is that correct?

    There are agreements with several countries with regards to the collection of debts, but generally, if a CCJ did not exist before Mr X left the country to live in a non EU state, then they couldn't enforce any subsequent CCJ in many foreign countries

    Hope this helps


    If you feel that this site has helped you in any way please leave a donation if you can afford to do so.

    If you feel that have been helpful please feel free to tip the scales.


    The large print giveth, but the small print taketh away. ~Tom Waits, Small Change


    Please note: i am not a qualified lawyer, any advice is offered in good faith and is based on my own and others experiences and a penchant for research and a desire to help others to empower themselves

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  10. #10
    Site Team ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel Highly authoritative ScarletPimpernel's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    6,270

    Default Re: Complicated question- have a go!

    I would suggest that from my own experience of Deutsche Bank Mr X would be better off opening a new account at the local Stadtsparkasse or equivalent.


  11. #11
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula Authoritative Lula's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Apr 2006
    I am in
    Hertfordshire
    Posts
    8,900

    Default Re: Complicated question- have a go!

    they seem to be a law unto themselves but you will never go far wrong not trusting any of them

    Lula


    Lula v Abbey - Settled
    Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled
    Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Tricky question (again)

    If a debtor owes a UK bank money and moves abroad (to a NON European country) I understand that a CCJ can actually be issued although the debtor has moved abroad. Some people on this forum believe CCJ's cannot be issued if the debtor has disappeared but that is not true. A CCJ will be issued but the ENFORCEMENT of it is difficult or even impossible.

    In order for the CCJ to unenforcable it needs to be clear that the debtor has moved abroad in the first place. So is it advisable for the debtor to tell the bank the new address at all? This would only be done to later be able to prove that a forwarding address has been given to the bank as banks soemtimes take action against debtors simply by ignoring that they have moved abroad and have the CCJ issued at the 'last known address' in the UK.
    The CCJ would in both cases, however, be uncontested, wouldn't it?
    Does uncontested mean 'the defendant has moved without forwarding address' thus a CCJ can be set asideicon as the defendant never had a chance to reply

    OR

    does uncontested mean 'the defendant was made aware' as maybe the new address was supplied (by the defendant) BUT he/ she never bothered replying.

    There is obviously a major difference between the two.

    SO...the question is, is it wise to let the bank know the new address abroad (not neccesarily a real one) so that it is quite obvious from the start that any CCJ action is pointless as a CCJ would not be enforcable or simply move w/o giving a new address?

    Thanks


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Uncontested CCJ- tricky situation

    If a debtor owes a UK bank money and moves abroad (to a NON European country) I understand that a CCJ can actually be issued although the debtor has moved abroad. Some people on this forum believe CCJ's cannot be issued if the debtor has disappeared but that is not true. A CCJ will be issued but the ENFORCEMENT of it is difficult or even impossible.

    In order for the CCJ to unenforcable it needs to be clear that the debtor has moved abroad in the first place. So is it advisable for the debtor to tell the bank the new address at all? This would only be done to later be able to prove that a forwarding address has been given to the bank as banks soemtimes take action against debtors simply by ignoring that they have moved abroad and have the CCJ issued at the 'last known address' in the UK.
    The CCJ would in both cases, however, be uncontested, wouldn't it?
    Does uncontested mean 'the defendant has moved without forwarding address' thus a CCJ can be set asideicon as the defendant never had a chance to reply

    OR

    does uncontested mean 'the defendant was made aware' as maybe the new address was supplied (by the defendant) BUT he/ she never bothered replying.

    There is obviously a major difference between the two.

    SO...the question is, is it wise to let the bank know the new address abroad (not neccesarily a real one) so that it is quite obvious from the start that any CCJ action is pointless as a CCJ would not be enforcable or simply move w/o giving a new address?

    Thanks


  14. #14
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards Authoritative hillards's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2006
    I am in
    Doncaster
    Posts
    2,167

    Default Re: Tricky question (again)

    How many threads is this on? I often look at all new threads to see if I can help in any way, but this seems to be the 4th or 5th time I've seen this question, or variation of, today.

    PLEASE - stick to one thread per topic, otherwise it makes it difficult for people on here to follow what has been said and you may even find that nobody replies at all.

    I am not sure how to ask a mod to merge them all, hope someone can.

    Be good to those who give you advice that helps - click the star below to give them your thanks by way of a reputation credit.
    I've launched my CAG inspired site at http://hillards.webs.com/ for anyone who wants to know what the DCA's are really like, or what a CCA or SAR is... Lots of good reading!
    IMPORTANT: Take my advice on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, based upon knowledge gained. I am not a lawyer and have no legal standing
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  15. #15
    Royalties Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative PGH7447 Authoritative

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    10,118

    Default Re: Uncontested CCJ- tricky situation

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ion-again.html

    duplicate, please stick to one thread, multi posting may well get you a different answer

    PGH7447


    Getting There Slowly
    ---------

    Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  16. #16
    Premium Royalties Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2007
    Posts
    26,190

    Default Re: CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    5 threads merged....

    PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

    DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...65-legislation

    IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

    I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

    IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.
    Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
    Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.
    If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.


    Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ease-read.html
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    Thanks so much for all the help so far. But the question remains, should Mr X tell the bank he is moving AND give the new address or would that work against him? Please see #13 Uncontested CCJ- tricky situation
    above for the exact details- this really is quite vital.


  18. #18
    Basic Account Holder the_freedom_trail Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    773

    Default Re: CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    You sound a bit like James Bond

    09/07/09 Business Studies BA(Hons) 2:1

    eCar Insurance overpayment - £325
    Settled in full - 15/09/08
    NatWest Student A/C bank charges - £260
    Settled under hardship scheme - 08/06/09
    Natwest Business A/C bank charges - £60
    Settled in full as GOGW - 20/04/09
    Santander Consumer Finance late payment fees - £60
    Part settled for £48 - 01/03/08
    Peugeot Finance late payment fees - £50
    Settled in full before county court hearing - 01/09/09
    Peugeot Finance overpayment of £247
    Settled in full - 01/12/08
    Valley Leisure - complaint about collections agent
    £160 part refund of gym membership in compensation - 01/02/09
    HFC Bank - complaint about payment deducted from my account on wrong date
    GOGW £10 - 01/05/09
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder ukman Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    Any answers to my last question please???


  20. #20
    Premium Royalties Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man Highly authoritative 42man's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2007
    Posts
    26,190

    Default Re: CCJ's not enforcable when leaving Europe

    You are asking a question that is difficult for anybody to answer....should I scarper and evade the debt and risk them trying a fast one to get a CCJ on me in the UK ? or should I let them know where I am allowing them to hassle me constantly and let them chase me overseas ? I can't think of any other cases similar that I have seen.....If you are in Azerbaijan it is highly unlikely they will be able to issue anything, and if you are opening up another bank account with a different bank there is little they can do !!

    If you moved out of Europe, and got a CCJ whilst you were out of the country then providing you have proof of your move then you would get a CCJ set asideicon.....

    PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

    DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...65-legislation

    IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

    I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

    IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.
    Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
    Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.
    If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.


    Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ease-read.html
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0


Viewing CAG on a small screen? Switch to the mobile version of the site

Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE