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Strong words I know but something needs to be done. I use GL1 leisure Centre in Gloucester on a regular basis; in fact I am there almost every day of the week. I usually park in the supermarket opposite where my wife has a browse, does some shopping has a coffee etc. On occasions I choose to park outside GL1 with these occasions being evenings after 18:00, Saturdays 06:00 – 08:45 or Sundays.
I questioned the council who claimed the yellow lines were clear for all to see and therefore they would continue to issue PCNs for the area. This was despite me providing them with the evidence that the lines were not enforceable. I was going to take them to task but then I learned they had apparently stopped issuing PCNs for that area. It was strange really because they accepted my appeal yet dismissed a friend’s appeal despite using the same reason after parking in the exact same spot!
I then received another PCN for parking one evening in the same area. I read the PCN and this time is used code 86 “Parking beyond the bay markings”. It is NCP (acting for the council) who issue these PCNs and they even ticketed one of their own staff despite him displaying a permit. He asked them about the situation and the validity of the PCNs and he was told by the supervisor that they would now change the location from Albert Street (see my post above) to GL1 Leisure Centre as they could enforce PCNs issued this way. They have admitted defeat on the Albert Street PCNs and the ones for Cambridge Street because I correctly pointed out to them that their double yellow lines were not enforceable and the TRO was errr...rubbish, etc.
I started to talk with other people who use GL1 and it appears they had not stopped, just got a bit more sneaky about it with this new Code 86 PCN. I am outraged by this and feel it is now time to take action.
The relevant TRO only mentions “Pay and Display” and parking within the “parking bay” the relevant TRO can be seen in the above link. They know they cannot enforce their DIY double yellow lines so they are now resorting to these methods to obtain money.
1.There are no “parking bays” in the area where my car was parked, just phoney double yellow lines
2.There are no signs saying you must buy a ticket. If you drive on another 50-70 metres and turn left you may see a sign next to the ticket machine but you wouldn’t need to pass it when you left the area and you certainly wouldn’t see it in the normal course of your journey.
3.The controlled hours on the TRO are 09:00 – 15:00 Monday to Saturday but they issued my PCN at 18:25 I also know they have issued them on Saturdays before 09:00 and any time they happen to be passing...or when the coffers are low!
I have spoken to the council and so has my friend. They told us there was a new TRO dated 2007 (linked one is dated 2005) so they could enforce the PCNs and would issue them. I checked with the Highways Authority and they have confirmed there is NO new TRO and the one posted is the current and only TRO in force as I type. I was also told there is no new application for a revised/new TRO. ?
This is why I say misfeasance, they clearly know all about the inadequacies of the TROs yet they still continue to issue PCNs. I guess you could upgrade it to Malfeasance if they continue. It annoys me that when you speak to them they say there is a new TRO in place when clearly there isn’t. They know the times, the need for clearly marked bays, signs, oh and a little thing called a legal TRO but they keep issuing PCNs like they are going out of fashion. I know there is a lot of debate whether it is misfeasance or malfeasance but either way it is simply plain wrong!
I know I can appeal this latest PCN but how can I best tackle the council? They must have collected £0000s over time and they simply don’t look like stopping.
If the area is covered by an off street parking order the contravention is correct. If there are no bays to park in you are not allowed to park hence the yellow lines, which although not enforceable as such are a good indication parking is not permitted. Using yellow lines on car park access roads is fairly common practice and along with yellow hatching has no legal status off road but is used as guidance to help raise drivers awareness of a restriction on parking.
That's interesting but what's the point of having restricted parking times if they just come along and slap a pcn irrespective of time or place of parking. Also, they don't issue PCNs to another part of the same area...they seem to be making things up as they go along?
That's interesting but what's the point of having restricted parking times if they just come along and slap a pcn irrespective of time or place of parking. Also, they don't issue PCNs to another part of the same area...they seem to be making things up as they go along?
The times you have stated are 'charged hours' from what I can see. Outside those hours it is free it doesn't mean you can park out of bay.
The times you have stated are 'charged hours' from what I can see. Outside those hours it is free it doesn't mean you can park out of bay.
As far as I recall there have been threads about GL1 before and the issue isn't really about the bays/yellow lines, but more about the fact that the TRO that is supposed to apply to the area - doesn't!
Hi, slight deviation here but can anyone help.... what is the rule if a large obstruction (a building site hoarding) covers a large section of a single yellow line and only a small (20ft) portion of the the line remains with no time sign? Clearly this section of the road is temporarily not useable as the main carriage way as the hoarding projects more than a car width into the carriage way. This is in Hampshire incidently.
I didn't think an off street area could have a TRO but would have an off street parking places order which the Leisure centre has?
Hi G&M
That's the irony in this case..the leisure centre staff are totally hacked off with the situation and that includes the management. They have nothing to do with the car parking situation.
I have looked at the TRO and it's rather errr....ancient and does not make any reference to yellow lines restricted parking etc etc. The NCP bods will not issue a pcn to people parked on one side of the area because in their words "they know the yellow lines are unenforceable because a barring of the line end does not exist". I initially pointed that out to the council but upon further checking realised that there was no mention of restricted parking, waiting, yellows etc in the TRO. So no mention of restrictions in the TRO surely means they are totally unenforceable. I hate to imagine how much revenue this generated for them, it won't be small change!
Now if it is in the "off street parking" area I can understand your point about not being able to park in hashed or yellow lined areas but they have to put that in the TRO and in the Ts & Cs on the car park notices/ticket machines so they both define the same restrictions.
I have looked into this in depth and this is what I believe has occurred. I mentioned this in my other post about this area so apologise for repeating myself.
I believe they set-up the car park area and allocated the bays according to the TRO. They then realised that rather than pay for the car park, people were parking on the area outside. There were no yellow lines so people assumed it was safe to park. As with most authorities they decided to stop this but rather than paint more bays and charge accordingly (not financially viable will be their excuse) they simply got some DIY lines painted in the area. These were not included in the TRO but as is the norm with the council "Yellow lines is yellow lines mate so we're gonna ticket you!" You can actually see where they've just added the lines on from the main ones on the highway. They're a bit wonky and thin, broken in places, no bars on the end etc. All of that doesn't matter too much because they're not mentioned in the TRO.
So my argument is a simple one. No lines in the TRO means they don't exist in law so they cannot enforce them. They may well have a Pay and Display policy and want you to park within the bays but if you can park for free in an area with no lines, why would you pay? Also, as you enter the area there is no sign that says you must buy a ticket or no sign that says this is a Pay and Display car park.
They have clearly defined hours of parking control so can they come along out of these hours and issue a PCN? I'm not sure on this one but if for example you parked your car in one of their bays and had to err on one side (just a bit outside the bay) because of tight parking by the adjacent car could they just pitch up and slap a PCN on your vehicle for "parking outside of the bay?" That's the bit I am unsure of as it seems strange that they can do this especially when the alleged "restricted lines/hashed areas" don't exist on the TRO and therefore don't exist in law?
Incorrect PCNs....misfeasance from Council?
see post http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/157944-parking-ticket-but-few.html but after good advice from this forum I checked the TRO and discovered it was invalid.
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Originally Posted by changy
