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I think it was early 2004 (I'd have to check my statements), and I don't remember the form looking like that!
This is definitely a new agreement (£12 charges), and they actually state that they are current terms relating to the account, so they're not even attempting to cover that up
Do you have any idea what they're like at keeping agreements? It just always seems odd to me when banks don't send the originals (well, the copy of it anyway) straight away - surely that would be the best thing for them to do??
Cheers
Lexis
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
About to send a 'thanks for the pointless empty current application, now please can I see my real one' letter.
If that doesn't get me anywhere, I think I'll try S.A.R - (Subject access request)'ing them for it (not that I really want to spend the tenner doing that, as I don't have much at all in the way of charges. Yet
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
I was going to get off a letter asking to see an actual copy a few days ago, but personal circumstances have overridden that so it's on hold for a minute.
As they don't appear to be doing anything much at the moment regarding my payment plan (ie it's still going), I think I'll hold fire for a minute then get a letter off when we're a bit calmer at home - I'm not sure I could cope with another bank being an a**e at the moment!
The trouble is, I think at the moment they've pretty much complied with the request, even though it's not enforceable as it stands, so I don't want to kick off with them just yet as I'm sure that'll be trotted out the moment I mention anything's wrong.
Btw, you said 'I hope CCA 1974 also governs your agreement as you took out the card in 1999'. Is there something I've missed in my reading? I thought that everything was covered up until last year when it changed - or do I need to go reading up on something else too
Thanks again
Lexis
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
I just re-read your post and saw that you said that you took out your card in 2004. I think I was confused with the application form on your photobucket that showed 1999.
Please ignore that line. I wasn't trying to confuse you.
I decided to let this hang for a bit as I didn't want to kick off with them, and didn't know what to put in the letter (meant to search but didn't have the time), but I've had a Default notice through the post and obviously if I can halt that I'd like to.
How should I proceed with this?
As far as I can see, what they've sent satisfies the remit for the CCA, but is completely unenforceable. If that's correct, does anyone have a good letter I can use to let them know (nothing I have quite fits, and I don't know how to word it properly for the best effect).
The Default was sent on the 23rd Oct, giving me 28 days to remedy (I know I've left it late - we've had a lot of personal issues that have overtaken recently). It was sent as they've changed the way their payment plans work, so they've taken me off the one I was on and put me on a 'long term plan', which apparently involves them defaulting me.
Is there any way I can use the current lack of an enforceable agreement to stop this for the time being (even though I think it satisfies the CCA request), or are they likely to carry on regardless?
Thanks
Lexis
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
As it stands the so called agreement in your first post is nothing more than current terms and conditions. I am pretty certain that it doesnt comply with the CCA request. At the very least t&cs from the period of the account's inception should have been sent.
I am not sure what Capital One are up to.. they can default you at any time they like, it doesnt need a change of payment plan or an act of god for them to do that. :-?
I suspect that now they have sent the default notice that is that, they wont take it back or remove any default they add to a CRA report. I wonder if their next move will be to pass the account on to a DCA. I simply dont know, I am sorry.
If you havent advised them that the document they sent you in the first post, isnt what you requested.. then I guess now is the time to do that. Are you paying them ?
1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -HERE
2: Take back control of your finances -Debt Diaries
3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?Read Here
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
I thought it complied as it has the prescribed terms on it etc, and is just missing my details (which they're allowed to do?)
I suppose it may be possible to have the default removed if it turns out they have nothing...
Would you suggest just sending the standard 'not what I asked for' letter then? If so I can knock that up in a few minutes
I am still paying a small amount, but only because I was a) unsure about the compliance aspect and b)coz of all the personal stuff going on, I didn't want another fight just yet! However, as they've started with this default stuff I may as well now - it's not like they can default me again Well they might try, but they'll be very naughty bunnies if they do!
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
When the Liberals and Conservatives were in opposition, they both agreed that banks should pay back high bank charges to customers. Nothing seems to have happened since they came into power as a coalition. PPI Insurance has been sorted. Now they should turn their attention to bank charges and help customers get exorbitant charges refunded.
Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE
As far as I can see, the prescribed terms are the top three bits of info on the left (it's hard to see on the scan). They show Credit Limit, Monthly Payments and APR. There is a place for a signature on the right, but it looks to me like it relates to PPI, not the agreement.
It definitely is a current set of terms on there though - £12 charges and a different interest rate to the one I had.
I'm going to just go ahead and send the letter - after all, even if it does have the prescribed terms on it, it's still meant to be an identical (although not necessarily signed etc) copy to the one I would have signed in '04. This is plainly a later version, so I'm happy enough to play letter tennis for a while over that.
I've also just noticed the bit at the bottom of the page with the small print on it 'This document sets out the current terms of your agreement with us. This document includes information under the headlines 'APR...which do not necessarily reflect your current terms but were the case at the time your account was set up'. This isn't right, as the APR quoted is completely wrong.
The really odd thing though is that it seems to be a mis-match of an agreement - on one side they talk about transactions prior to and after May 2005, but on the other side they have £12 charges and 'we will send your card and pin'. Very strange.
I'm not going to obsess over it any more though. I'll get the letter out tomorrow (with a big red Formal Complaint, Account in Dispute header), then it's done!
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
Feel free to watch - I'm sending out the letter tomorrow, so I'll keep this updated with any response
They can send out an unsigned, essentially blank copy and it can still comply with the Act, but it must be a true copy of what you would have signed at the time, not a copy of a current agreement. But, just because it's a true copy doesn't make it enforceable - for that to happen they need to be able to supply you with a document that bears your signature, and the prescribed terms within the signature page, or if on more than one page the pages must be linkable in some way (ie ref. nos etc) - otherwise it could be your signature with any old terms slapped on the back.
It's all very confusing, which is why I've been umming and ahhing about doing anything, but now I'm going ahead anyway. If you have a look at the link in post 8 you should find quite a lot of info there to help you.
Lexis
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
Ok, letter done and ready to go. I did amend the normal one slightly as I do think the terms are on there, however it still falls short on the signature box, being current rather than applying at the time of the account inception, and obviously being blank.
For what it's worth, I did include that while it's unenforceable they can't apply defaults etc, but I doubt it'll do anything. No harm in chancing my arm though!
Keep your fingers crossed for me
ps - thank you for the click SB100
Time flies like an arrow... Fruit flies like a banana.
Lexis200 V Capital One (CCA)
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