Thread: Halifax Cetelem PPI Claim

Hi there,

I`m hoping some of you PPI claim experts could possibly help me out with a couple of accounts I have/had with Halifax Cetelem.

The short of it is this -

I purchased two seperate items from seperate shops on a Buy Now Pay Next Year deal. I saved up the money for both accounts and in the last week I phoned them up to pay them off, only to be told they couldn`t accept card payment. The only thing I could do was send them a cheque. By this time, the 12 months were up and the 36 monthly payments kicked in with extortionate interest.

Now, one of the accounts was paid up with no problems, but after I changed bank accounts I emailed Cetelem with my new details and they got back to me and said they couldn`t change them due to some Data Protection Act crap, so I just left it at that. I never paid the last couple of months.

Months later I received a letter from some empty head at Lowells claiming they had bought the account from Cetelem.

Now, I decided to S.A.R - (Subject access request) Cetelem for both account to check for charges and I discovered on both accounts was PPI, which had automatically been added. There was no option to choose it or not, and there isn`t even any `PPI added at value`, they have just stuck on £3.69 on one account and £4.30 on the other account. The account with £4.30 added each month isn`t even referenced to PPI. It is simply a blank line with £4.30.

On this particular account there are also charges applied, but I have worked out from what they have added and what I missed paying and what I have paid in PPI that they actually owe me on this account.

I work it out at 34 payments of £4.30 for PPI (I missed the last 2 payments) = £146.20.

Minus £53.72 for the last two monthy payments (I have deducted PPI from these first)

Equals £92.48 they owe me.



The other account is 36 monthly payments with £3.69 for PPI = £136.84.

The comes to £229.32 for both accounts for PPI.



I have scanned the CCA`s for both accounts and are as follows -



CCA 1





CCA 2





I have infact started a thread in the Debt Forums when I received the letter from Lowells. These have now gone quiet since I sent a letter stating they owed me! The thread can be found here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...em-lowell.html

I would appreciate some help with this as I`m unsure how how to go about this.

Would I be able to add interest on? They don`t seem to have added any interest onto the monthly PPI.

As I have changed my original bank account I would need to be paid via cheque. I was originally with Lloyds TSB, then I moved to Halifax. Then I found out Cetelem were part of Halifax, and now Lloyds TSB are buying out Halifax. What the hell does that all mean?

I look forward to hearing from you all on this.

Thanks.



N.P

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Looks like they have added PPI without your knowledge or consent, they have breached regulations and you are within your rights to request the money back that they have taken from you. Very shoddy practice.

If you want a hand with a preliminary request for payment letter just shout

Originally Posted by alanalana

Hello NP,

If you look closely at the first document CCA1 it seems to me when compared to the second CCA2, that under the installment figure there are three lines missing.
The line Monthly payment protection insurance premium including the £ sign and the letter H to the right hand side have been obliterated but the figure of 4.30 has been left in.
The line The total monthly payment inclusive of insurance (G+H) and the £
The line Annual Percentage Rate (APR) has also dissappeared.

You will be able to see more clearly on the original but I would suggest they may have been deleted for some reason or other before they were sent to you.

What do you reckon Painty?




The proposed takeover of HBOS by Lloyds TSB has now collapsed.

aa

Well spotted aa, hadn't seen that at first but it does look mighty suspicious. Hiding something perhaps?

Hiding their brains ... in the cupboard?

Hi alanaalana and Paintball,

Thanks for the posts on my thread.

I have just got in from work, so I`ll give you a quick answer before my shower and I`ll be on again later.

The CCA`s are EXACT scans of what I received. The only boxes/wording I have changed are the grey boxes to hide my private info.

I received a CCA from Lowells and then I later SAR Cetelem, and I received the exact same copy. So, by going off the CCA`s you know exactly the same as I do.

I`d like a hand with the letters if you don`t mind, as I`d like to try and get this back in time for Christmas, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

I look forward to hearing from you again.

Thanks again.



N.P

Hi NP

Hope you're feeling refreshed after your shower

Have you worked out how much interest has been applied to the PPI on the loans? You will need to be reclaiming this too.

Here's a stab at a response for your two loan accounts:



Date


Your Ref xxx

Re: Accounts xxxx and xxxxxx


Dear Sir or Madam

Further to my S.A.R - (Subject access request) of date relating to the above loan accounts taken out respectively on date and date, I write to inform you that I am shocked to discover that Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) has been added without my knowledge or consent, to both accounts. PPI is not a compulsory product when taking out a loan, and adding PPI to my loan accounts in this way is a clear breach of both FSA regulations and guidelines and the Banking Code of Practice provided to the financial services industry.

As a respected financial organisation, you will have been quite aware of these regulations and this makes your organisation's action even more serious. It is extremely poor business practice to say the least.

In taking out a loan with Halifax/Cetelem, I reserved the right as your customer to receive appropriate information to enable me to take out a compulsory insurance product that suited my demands and needs. Halifax/Cetelem had an obligation to me the borrower, to provide sufficient and appropriate information to enable me to make an informed decision as to the suitability of both the loan and the PPI to meet my needs and financial circumstances. I should also have been made aware of alternative options available, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers, which information as a well known financial institution, you would most certainly have had access to.

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) provides guidelines which your organisation should adhere to while making both Advised and Non-Advised sales. Where a Non-Advised sale takes place, as in my own case "The customer must, however, still receive sufficient information on the product to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether it meets their own demands and needs." (FSA)

At no point did I receive any such information, either by letter, document or telephone call which followed the above guideline. The documents that you have provided copies of do not contain any of the information that I have outlined above and cannot, therefore, be deemed as meeting the standard of care which you should have provided.

I assert that I have been deprived of the right to choose PPI when taking out the loans, and that you have taken advantage of my lack of knowledge.

I reposed absolute trust in your ability as a respected financial institution to provide a reasonable level of care and skill in ensuring that my best interests were met when taking out a financial product with your organisation. This has not been the case and I am extremely shocked and disappointed.

I would further suggest that the Principles of Business which are legally binding on Halifax/Cetelem under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and which are contained in the FSA Handbook, have not been followed. Therefore you are in breach of regulations.

I would remind you that the FSA takes the mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and you will be aware that recent investigations by both the FSA and the Competition Commission have found that lenders continue to engage in "poor sales practices" and that "customers were not informed orally of both the monthly and total cost of their PPI". (FSA report, 30 September 2008.)

I request the return of (insert amount here plus interest) within 14 days of receipt of this letter by you. If you do not comply with my request, I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (fos)/escalate my claim to the courts. I should remind you that the FOS take the issue of mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and in many cases, have imposed large fines on financial institutions who are in breach of regulations.

Yours sincerely


Your name here

Hi Paintball,

Thanks for that letter.

Yep, I`m somewhat more refreshed after my shower, just the damn kids have been busting our chops as it`s bedtime.

I`ve had a read through your letter and it`s quite a cracker!

In fact I`ll keep a copy and use it as a defence against any Court claim regarding an Argos Card and Lloyds TSB Mastercard. Both have dodgy CCA`s and have PPI added. Even though I ticked the box, that all there was, just a tick, no more information or alternatives, nothing!

Anyway, on with this one. I`m not sure about the interest because going off the CCA, they don`t seem to have added it onto the PPI. It looks like they have added the interest onto the loan amount and then added the PPI last.

What happened, as in my first post. I bought two items at different times, one from PC World and one from Dabs. It just happened they both used Cetelem as the financial company.

I saved up over the year and then rang them up in the last week to pay them off with my Card and they said they don`t take card payments. So, the 3 year plan kicked in, they added a huge amount of extortionate interest. Sounds like a [problem] to get more of of people eh?

Another thing, when I sent the prove it letter to Lowells, they sent me the dodgy CCA with the print missing and also 1 of 2 statement sheets. I wrote back to them and explained I want the second sheet beforte I correspond any further and I haven`t heard anything again. At that point I sent a SAR to Cetelem to check out the damage.

The second statement sheet had on loads of charges which they applied, although I have deducted these from the balance. The balance is infact in my favour. The other account is straight forward. I`m just after the PPI.

Could I possible add interest for each month that I paid the PPI on? I`m not sure how it works but people have done that with Bank claims. The interest on the first payment would be higher than a more recent one, if you understand what I mean?

Anyway, I`ll get a copy of that letter away as soon as you approve/disapprove on the PPI interest.

Thanks again.

Regards



N.P

Hi again all,

Following Paintballs letter from Post 8 which was signed for 22.10.08, I received the following reply this morning.

Now, as my letter was only signed for a few days ago, they seemed to have fired out a reply straight away, as their letter was sent 2nd Class.

It goes something like this -







Now, they claim the Agreement clearly showed the option for choose the PPI, I don`t think so and no one else can see it, especially as the CCA is quite a good one. One of the CCA`s simply has a blank line with £4.30 stuck on the end of it.

They also claim Cetelem are no longer a business. So what! They still took my money. If they ceased trading then where did this letter come from.

They also claim they are not a member of GISC and the fos and FLA have no juristdiction on them. Are they full of crap? Does this make any difference.

Also, I was just wondering, when I rang up to pay the account off before the Buy Now Pay Next Year was up, they said they can`t take Credit Card payments. The 36 month deal with extortionate interest then kicked in. I`ve noticed on my Halifax Bank Account Statement, I did actuallly make 2 payments over their Website Payment Page with my Debit Card, this was a Halifax Card, and I beleive Cetelem was or still is part of Halifax. Is that some sort of a [problem] to get more out of me?

I do have proof from my SAR that I did phone them to pay off with a Card but was told they don`t take Credit Card payments.

I`d appreciate some help with this one and I`m willing to go all the way with this as I`m sick of getting ripped off!

Whats my next move?

I look forward to hearing from you on this.

Thanks in advance.



N.P

Hello NP,

They also claim Cetelem are no longer a business. So what! They still took my money. If they ceased trading then where did this letter come from.

They state in their letter on headed paper as I see that they no longer exist to write any business as of January 2005 this is the date the FSA took over control of PPI and the financial institutions to regulate them.

However it would seem they are still registered with Companies House see this..............
Companies House



Name & Registered Office:
CETELEM (UK) LIMITED
10 HAREWOOD AVENUE
LONDON
NW1 6AA
Company No. 03610034
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 05/08/1998

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
6522 - Other credit granting
Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2006 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2008
Last Return Made Up To: 19/08/2007
Next Return Due: 16/09/2008 OVERDUE
Last Members List: 19/08/2007
Previous Names:Date of changePrevious Name18/12/1998ALNERY NO. 1792 LIMITED17/02/2004Halifax CETELEM CREDIT LIMITED09/06/1999HALIFAX CETELEM FINANCES LIMITED24/03/1999HARRY DAWN LIMITEDBranch DetailsThere are no branches associated with this company.Oversea Company InfoThere are no Oversea Details associated with this company

This is the link.........

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.u k/f5e15d75527cb026a9b15ad73 70cf127/compdetails
And from the FSA register see this..........

435258 - Cetelem (UK) Limited
Current status:Introducer A.R.Effective Date:07/07/2005
Tied Agent:Undertakes Insurance Mediation:Y
Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:Address:Leo House
Railway Approach
Wallington
Surrey
SM6 0XX



I would state that it is not up to you to provide evidence to substantiate your claim but it is up to them to provide evidence that they followed all the rules of selling. They are on the back foot they claim not to be a part of the GISC. ABI or FLA but they do hold a credit licence and are subject to the rules of the Office of Fair Trading.

If they ceased to write any business you could ask why they are still listed within Companies House see the effective date to act as introducer which is well after the 14 January 2005 when the FSA became the regulator.

It may be worth mentioning you will complain to Companies House and the OFT about their Selling of PPI.

You could use this link to check out the FSA register on any of their previous company names just click the link type in the firm name in the box and submit for information.
FSA Register



Hope you find this information helpful

aa

Hi there alanalana,

Thanks for that.

Why would the FAS take control pf companies if they weren`t mis-selling PPI? Simply adding it to an agreement without any options certainly sounds like mis-selling to me.

When you say they are on the back foot, what exactly do you mean? Do they have to be part of the GISC, ABI or FLA?

What about the [problem] regarding card payments, which I mentioned in Post 10? Do you think I have anything there?

Do you think I should send them a copy of the dodgy CCA`s and also a copy of their memo which states they told me they don`t take Credit Card payments, yet my Bank Statements show 2 payments with a Electron Visa Debit Card?

Does anyone have templates I could get started with please? I`m not very good at wording things legally.

Thanks again for your input.



N.P

Hi NP

Well I think it's time to send your lba to Cetelem pointing out that you are disappointed with their response, use the first para of th letter I did for you because that's where you state that they have added PPI without your knowledge or consent and they have indeed, done this.

Remind them that they seem to be confused about their own existence as an organisation and that Companies House which registers all companies legally trading hold a record for them, together with full listing of all their accounts. In other words, they are responsible for the debt and your complaint.

Remind them as per my letter, that the FSA regulated their selling at the time of the loan via the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 therefore they are responsible and that you find the service they offered fell well below the level that is expected from a lender.

Tell them that they have a furthe 7 days in which to reconsider their position and pay you X and that if you do not receive a favourable response within that time, you will have no alternative but to escalate your complaint to the fos or the courts (whichever you choose to do).

Have a stab at the letter but hope this helps ...

Aha, just seen aa's response ...

NP I wasn't aware that you had not sent a SAR. This, as aa points out, is always the best stating point so maybe do that then save the lba until you have all the info ...

Hi aa and Paintball,

I have actually sent a SAR to Cetelem and received quite a bit of info back.

I had two accounts with them and PPI was ADDED to both. Even though I missed two payments on one of the accounts before it was sold to a bunch of empty heads at Lowells, I still calculate they owe me over £200 for both accounts.

They also included statements, CCA`s, memo`s from email and telephone calls.

One of the email memo`s mentions that I rang up to pay the account off with my Credit Card at the end of the Buy Now Pay Next Year deal and was told they don`t take Credit Card payments and only accepted a cheque. The 36 monthly payments kicked in and they added over £500 interest. They did that with both accounts.

My Bank Account Statements show that I later made two payments via their Website Payment Page with my Vise Electron Debit Card.

One Agreement was signed April 2003 and the other January 2004.

In the SAR bundle I recieved their cover letter claimed Cetelem no longer operate in the UK and that one of my Accounts had been sold to Lowells. It also stated they no longer hold any data on me but all of my Account information was available and intact. Yes, I know, sill aren`t they?

I began receiving letters from Lowells chasing £280, which I knew was charges, so I started defending via the CCA route and realised there was PPI which to me seemed definately mis-sold, and here I am now.

It`s just I`m not sure which way to go and now I`m also thinking about the Card payments as I get a feeling I`ve been rumbled to get more out of me.

Thanks for your help people, I really appreciate it.

Regards



N.P

HI all,

I haven`t spoke to anyone yet. I`m not really sure what to say, to be honest.

I thought you can only involve the fos after 8 weeks if your not happy with the Companies response to the complaint?



N.P

Well, NP, since you've sent the S.A.R - (Subject access request) I think I'll stick by what I said in my post #14 ...

lba giving them 7 days in which to reconsider their position then refer your complaint to fos or file in court ... whichever route you feel comfortable taking. Refer too aa for FOS links/contacts

Looking at the various threads on this forum and people's individual stories/cases, there seem to be very few organisations who just crumble and pay up after a couple of letters showing how we have been mis-sold PPI and how the said organisation has breached regulations. We have to really put up a fight to get our money back ...

But it's definitely worth it if you look at the PPI Successes sticky

Thanks for that Paintball,

I`ll sort a letter out tomorrow night after work, and post it up for your approval. I`m going to watch Most Haunted Live now with the other half, even though it`s totaly crap

Do you think I should include a copy of the dodgy CCA`s highlighting the PPI? One of which is just a blank line, so if that`s not dodgy then what the hell is?

Any idea`s about the Card payment thing?

Thanks again people.



N.P