Thread: Calculating Refund

Hi,

I have PPI with BlackHorse which was mis sold by CarLand in 2005 – I realized this in 2006 and called Black Horse – they said I could cancel it no problem and I could take up the mis selling with CarLand.

I was happy to do this but got tied up with other bits and never chased CarLand…

I was thinking about this today when I remembered that BlackHorse said they would cancel my PPI – I guessed this would affect the end date as my monthly payments hadn’t gone down, so I gave them a call to check the new date.

They said there were notes on my account to say I wanted to cancel it, however I hadn’t returned the form they had posted me which basically says I agree to cancel the PPI, untill they have this i'm still paying PPI

I explained that I was never told about a form and that I’d not received one – after a chat with a manager she said there was no problem; they would sent me a new form and once I had returned it they would write to me and ask how I would like the overpayments to be refunded – either to my account or via a cheque…

I already know I’ll be opting for the cheque option as it will suit my current situation – what I want to make sure that the correct interest is accounted for.

With this in mind can someone please help me work out what the interest paid on the PPI should be as I’m totally confused.


The loan was for 5000 over 60 months – my credit file states the loan was for 9000 [inc the PPI] so I’m assuming this is the total payable [4000 interest/PPI!!!!]

The PPI total was 1065.53 which divided by 60 months is £17.7588 per month

I’ve overpaid this for 24months now which is 426.21 to be refunded.

The lady on the phone said they will calculate the interest and refund accordingly but I would like to have a figure ready to check it when their offer comes thought – after all my interest is really high so the pro-rata interest in 426.21 is probably stupid!

All help gratefully received J

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i have still not had my form frm Black horse to get this refunded!

i called a week ago and said i've not had it - they said it was sent and that they would send it again...this is 26days waiting in total now!!!

can i make them send it via recorded delivery as they are adimant its been sent?

Originally Posted by pompeyfaith

There is a sticky at the top of this forum you can use to work it all out very useful i found.

Just delete all the fields and enter your own and the formula will work it out.

link CAG PPI Calculator.xls - Windows Live SkyDrive

Regards

Leon

Right i have today off work and i woul lke to calculate whats 'owed' to me so when Black horse finally provide me with the form they need signing i will be able to reply with my refund request.

the form Leon kindly provided me with is confusing me lol.

i have the loan agrement here with all the figures etc on and i know the APR.

i accept i have paid the PPI for the first 20 months (before i realised it was added to my loan) but sinse i first requested the PPI was canceled i have paid an additional 24 months.

can someone help me as i never had a head for figures and Excel seems to confuse me.

the Breakdown is as follows:

Finance Details

Loan £5049.00
PPI £1065.53
Total Cash Price for Goods £6114.53
Deduct deposit £101.00

Amount of Credit (the loan)
interest £2902.74
Acceptance Fee £130.00
Documentation Fee £70.00
Total Charge for Credit £3102.74
Repayment Balance £9116.27
Total Payable £9217.27
APR 19.1%

then there is a section that mentions the PPI on its own but its just a break down of whats included above:
Interest payable on Payment Protection Plan £503.47
Total Cost of Payment Pritection Plan £1569.00

The monthly repayments are/were 1 payment of 156.15 followed by 58 payments of 150.68 and a final payment of 220.68 [60 months in total]

If anyon can help me with this i'd be very greaful

I finally got my letter of Black Horse to say its canceled – I have to sign the slip and return it [will do this asap via recorded delivery but I want to include a letter with a break down of what they owe me and what I should be paying for the loan on its own]

I seem to be using this thread to talk to myself but hopefully its helping me just to write everything down

I have got some figures but it seems too simple, so here goes...

The PPI inc. interest was 1569 so divide by 60 = 26.15. for 24 months this = 627.60, which they should give me back?

if it were this simple the monthly payments should go down to 124.53 but BH have stated by letter that payments will only drop to 132.64

But the interest on the PPI is now not over 60 months cause I cancelled it, so the figure 1569 would be less (not sure about this... they may then work out the interest on PPI for the 19months i paid for before cancelling.. I’m not sure if this is relevant or not... if that the case i may have overpaid on interest for the ppi for those 19months cos its a shorter time than 60months so I would have thought interest would be less??? not sure if there is more of a refund to get from this??)

another way to look at it is the car cost me 4948 (after deposits), over 60 months = 82.47
interest without the PPI (on car alone) would be 2399.27, over 60 months = 39.99

82.47+39.99=122.46 per month for 60 months.

From a quick look at it seems to me that they owe a refund of around £627.60
then my monthly payments should come down to around the 122 area, depending on which way they work it out.

if the PPI is cancelled then it would seem the cost for this should just be removed so u would pay the 122.46.
i don’t no if I could also claim back interest on the ppi payments u made in those 19 months cos, as i said (somewhat rambley) over a shorter period the interest must be less.

Help?

Originally Posted by jo5ephedward5

I finally got my letter of Black Horse to say its canceled – I have to sign the slip and return it [will do this asap via recorded delivery but I want to include a letter with a break down of what they owe me and what I should be paying for the loan on its own]

I seem to be using this thread to talk to myself but hopefully its helping me just to write everything down

I have got some figures but it seems too simple, so here goes...

The PPI inc. interest was 1569 so divide by 60 = 26.15. for 24 months this = 627.60, which they should give me back?

if it were this simple the monthly payments should go down to 124.53 but BH have stated by letter that payments will only drop to 132.64

But the interest on the PPI is now not over 60 months cause I cancelled it, so the figure 1569 would be less (not sure about this... they may then work out the interest on PPI for the 19months u paid for before cancelling.. I’m not sure if this is relevant or not... if that the case u may have overpaid on interest for the ppi for those 19months cos its a shorter time than 60months so I would have thought interest would be less??? not sure if there is more of a refund to get from this??)

another way to look at it is the car cost me 4948 (after deposits), over 60 months = 82.47
interest without the PPI (on car alone) would be 2399.27, over 60 months = 39.99

82.47+39.99=122.46 per month for 60 months.

From a quick look at it seems to me that they owe a refund of around £627.60
then my monthly payments should come down to around the 122 area, depending on which way they work it out.

if the PPI is cancelled then it would seem the cost for this should just be removed so u would pay the 122.46.
i don’t no if I could also claim back interest on the ppi payments u made in those 19 months cos, as i said (somewhat rambley) over a shorter period the interest must be less.

Help?

Hello Rambley:grin:

Sorry that you feel you are talking to yourself:grin: Figures are not the easiest of things to calculate.

From reading your thread, please correct me if I am wrong, you rang them to cancel this ppi about twenty months ago but they did not because they state that you did not send the form back to them. They have evidence that you asked for this on their systems:grin:

You now eventually have the form and are going to send it back at the least recorded delivery to make sure that the get it. The next thing they will do, is to cancel the ppi and refund any unpaid portion of ppi and the ppi interest into the balance of your loan, therefore reducing the balance, in which they should reduce your monthly payments or the length of term left on the loan.

Now there are two scenarios with this Your options are

1) demand the return of all ppi payments you have made to them, after telling them that you wished to cancel, plus interest at 19.1%, in the form a cheque or of the balance of the remaining loan, your choice not theirs, then once you have this, go for the rest of this mis-sold ppi and ppi interest, plus interest at their rate of 19.1%

Go for the whole lot now under mis-selling

My working of your calculation are as such, but I am not a mathemation

ppi £1,065.53 over 60months at 19.1% interest charged is £596. so the total you paid of this is £1,616.53 divided by 60 works out to be roughy £27 a month

There are a few more questions, well one really, was the loan arranged by a 3rd party. If so it would be based on commission based selling, which is a little more complicated, but manageable

Ok just answered my own question, just re-read your first post. Must leave myself a reminder to read the question in the first place.

Sort out the ppi cancellation with black horse and get that money from them, and do not forget to ask them for interest to boot at their rate.

Then get after carland for mis-selling it in the first place, for the portion that you have paid. The sale of the ppi would have been commission based, they would have received a payment as an incentative

Oh god your rambling is contagious, I caught it.

If I recover I can help you with the excel spreadsheet

Hi – thanks for the ramble

I actually called BH yesterday and asked how they worked this out – the customer services rep couldn’t tell me, she passed me to a PPI specialist, they couldn’t tell me and then I spoke to the Financial Manager and she didn’t know!, she said I should write to them with the exact info I require and they will send me a detailed Breakdown – they couldn’t do it over the phone as the computer works it out for their agreements and doesn’t show workings … she said once they have my letter they will get someone to break it down by hand [via a computer I’ve no doubt].

I’m staggered that they don’t know where their figures come from…

The customer services rep and the PPI guy both said I’d be getting no refund and that they knock it off my next payments which equated to £18 a month – I explained that the refund its self was that without interest and stated that a manager had already said I’d get it back – the financial manager confirmed that I would indeed get a refund but she also said they had no idea how much that would be lol.

Something seems fishy to me!

RE: the first part of the PPI – it was CarLand who added that not BH, I only found out a year or so after the agreement was signed as I was trying to sell the car but noted that BH had placed it on the HPI register – I was trying to argue that it wasn’t a HP agreement I had it was a personal loan…it is a personal loan and it’s still on the HPI register which I think is wrong but I couldn’t do anything about it without taking legal action so I’ve let it stay on their and sold the car to my dad who pays me for the finance…anyway that’s when I noticed that I was paying PPI, I did SAR CarLand and they sent me the forms all ticked and signed by me – I can’t help but feel there was some skullduggery going on as we had a huige conversation about how PPI was a waste of time – then he ‘nipped’ out the back to get copies of the forms and I signed them – I never checked to see if they were the same forms I’d read before he went in!

Obviously I’ll deal with CarLand separately – my main issue here is breaking everything down to send to BH asap so I can get a refund and my payments reduced correctly.

Also I noticed that on my credit file they have shown I took out a loan of over 9K – now this is the total payable but the loan even with the PPI was only 6K – are they allowed to lump 60months interest onto the loan on day one – reason I ask is it surely if I paid off some extra [not that I have] or wanted to settle early it would suggest I owed more than I do?...mmm I don’t like BH however polite their staff are!

Originally Posted by hellhasnofury

Hello Rambley:grin:

My working of your calculation are as such, but I am not a mathemation

PPI £1,065.53 over 60months at 19.1% interest charged is £596. so the total you paid of this is £1,616.53 divided by 60 works out to be roughy £27 a month

this is my working out too but the agrement states that the PPI interest is £503 so total payable is £1569 - i'm not entirly sure thsi adds up right @ 19.1%apr?

i need a mathmatician and an accountant and someone whos good with spreadsheets lol...anytakers?

Update:

I just called crack horse after sending them a letter asking for my PPI refund along with a full Breakdown – they said they paid the refund to my bank yesterday for £435 – its not yet but its en-route…the thing is the figure doesn’t ring true to me – after all if the total payable on my PPI was £1569 and it was over 60months then that’s £26.15 per month – then times that by the number of ‘over payments’ which would be 24 and we have a total of £627.60 – I also asked for them to recalculate my interest to reflect the new loan total.

I’m not complaining about the bank transfer by my letter clearly asked for a cheque!!!

My letter is below if anyone is interested:

Payment Protection Insurance

I am writing to you following numerous conversations held with staff at Black Horse, concerning PPI payments.

The PPI on this account was cancelled over two years ago, however staff have informed me that no signed declaration was received, therefore payments towards this plan continued to be made. A senior staff member at Black Horse has assured me that a refund is owed and my monthly repayments are to be recalculated accordingly, once you are in receipt of the declaration. Please find attached the declaration to cancel all PPI on this account.

Upon receiving your letter dated 24/9/08 my new estimated monthly payment is £132.64. I appreciate this is an estimated figure, however I believe this is noticeably more than it should be, when taking into account the now lower outstanding balance.

I would like it to be taken into consideration that PPI payments made prior to October 2006 were based on the policy running for a period of 60 months, with a balance of £1065.53 plus 19.1% APR. However taking into account that this policy was terminated early this is no longer the case. The total owing is substantially reduced and the interest originally calculated is incorrect. This change in policy means that payments made were too high in relation to the new balance and term. A refund is therefore due and I would like this included in my overall refund.

For my peace of mind I would like to request a full and comprehensive breakdown of my monthly payments, to show how these are divided into loan, loan interest, PPI and PPI interest. I have enquired about this breakdown over the phone however staff have not been able to provide details.

Along with the monthly breakdown, I await a refund of all overpayments from 19/10/2006, by way of cheque payable to XXXXXX


I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
XXXXX

Originally Posted by jo5ephedward5

Update:

I just called crack horse after sending them a letter asking for my PPI refund along with a full Breakdown – they said they paid the refund to my bank yesterday for £435 – its not yet but its en-route…the thing is the figure doesn’t ring true to me – after all if the total payable on my PPI was £1569 and it was over 60months then that’s £26.15 per month – then times that by the number of ‘over payments’ which would be 24 and we have a total of £627.60 – I also asked for them to recalculate my interest to reflect the new loan total.

I’m not complaining about the bank transfer by my letter clearly asked for a cheque!!!

My letter is below if anyone is interested:

Payment Protection Insurance

I am writing to you following numerous conversations held with staff at Black Horse, concerning PPI payments.

The PPI on this account was cancelled over two years ago, however staff have informed me that no signed declaration was received, therefore payments towards this plan continued to be made. A senior staff member at Black Horse has assured me that a refund is owed and my monthly repayments are to be recalculated accordingly, once you are in receipt of the declaration. Please find attached the declaration to cancel all PPI on this account.

Upon receiving your letter dated 24/9/08 my new estimated monthly payment is £132.64. I appreciate this is an estimated figure, however I believe this is noticeably more than it should be, when taking into account the now lower outstanding balance.

I would like it to be taken into consideration that PPI payments made prior to October 2006 were based on the policy running for a period of 60 months, with a balance of £1065.53 plus 19.1% APR. However taking into account that this policy was terminated early this is no longer the case. The total owing is substantially reduced and the interest originally calculated is incorrect. This change in policy means that payments made were too high in relation to the new balance and term. A refund is therefore due and I would like this included in my overall refund.

For my peace of mind I would like to request a full and comprehensive breakdown of my monthly payments, to show how these are divided into loan, loan interest, PPI and PPI interest. I have enquired about this breakdown over the phone however staff have not been able to provide details.

Along with the monthly breakdown, I await a refund of all overpayments from 19/10/2006, by way of cheque payable to XXXXXX


I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
XXXXX

Hello,

Good for you just keep snapping at their heels and show them that you are not prepared to be fobbed off.

Let see what their response is:grin: whether or not they provide you with their calculations. They can sometimes be a little bit evasive to direct questions

Ok,

Black Horse have written me 2 nice letters that are not worth the paper they are written on:

One says’ we have noticed you have made an overpayment of 435.95 on your PPI and have refunded it to your account’

The other says ‘due to the recent cancelation of the PPI on your loan, your new payments will be £132 per month’


Now where is the break down – my previous letter was pretty straight forward – I asked for a Breakdown of how my monthly payments were split into Loan, Loan interest, PPI and PPI interest – I also asked for a breakdown on how they calculated their refund and how they calculated the new monthly figure – non have been answered!

I’d go through the small claims court but I have no idea of how much I am claiming back if they won’t tell me how its paid / broken down!

I have just called Black Horse; got put through to 3 departments and they still have no answers! - the guy in charge of PPI refunds said he doesn't deal with the kind of PPI that I have and therefore could only speculate that the PPI is paid more heavily towards the beginning of my agreement and so I have probably paid off a lot more of it that I think and a lot less of the loan that I think - he said this is usually the case.

when I asked how I am meant to find out the answers I was told I should write to their complains dept - what a cop out!

Now if you take out a loan with a fixed APR is it possible for them to divide up your payments as they wish? - after all I would imagine as my agreement states that PPI without interest is £1065 and with interest is £1569 that I should simply be able to divide £1569 by 60months [the term] and that’s my monthly PPI payment?

Any ideas on what I should put in my letter of complain? – also my phone bills are getting high due to this – 30p per min to call them from my o2 mobile [on a contract]…last month was £20 worth!

and am i right in thinking that its my right to know how my money is being put to use...my letter asked to know how my paymenst were split into Loan, Loan interest, PPI, and PPI Interest!