Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Hope someone can put me straight on the current legislation.
I have a small company and employ a guy to drive a van for me from time to time. A while ago I had a casual driver working for me who has now left and parted company. In the two weeks he worked for me he committed around twenty driving offences by turning right at a "no right turn" sign on his way to work then again each day turning right out of the same road on the way home.
All the offences were cuaght on camera and pcn's issued by TFL. Although the sign is rather obscured and dubious, it is there in situ.
I have received many notices from TFL who say that as the owner of the vehicle I am responsible for the fines incurred by this other person driving. Is this true? If so this just cost me well over £2000 and I haven't even done anything wrong!
I'm finding it hard to believe that I can be fined for offences committed by a third party...?!?!
You are responsible and as such should include in your employees terms of employment that they are liable for any traffic offences/contraventions incurred whilst driving your vehicle.
You are not responsible for traffic offences committed by your employees in the course of their work. All you have to do is notify the prosecuting authority of the details of the person driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.
You are not responsible for traffic offences committed by your employees in the course of their work. All you have to do is notify the prosecuting authority of the details of the person driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.
If you read the opening post you will see that the OP was issued PCNs by Tfl for moving traffic contraventions nothing to do with the Police so he IS liable.
My apologies, had just realised this and was coming on to alter post. The OP should still make formal representations and may well be lucky and get the tickets quashed. The legislation regarding this is an absolute disgrace and in my opinion is in itself illegal and ought to be challenged at the highest level.
My apologies, had just realised this and was coming on to alter post. The OP should still make formal representations and may well be lucky and get the tickets quashed. The legislation regarding this is an absolute disgrace and in my opinion is in itself illegal and ought to be challenged at the highest level.
If you own a vehicle in my opinion you should be responsible for its use, if you do not trust the driver to act in a responsible way you should not give them the keys. Employers can insist penalties are paid by the driver and this should be sorted out prior to letting them lose in your vehicle. You are not liable for a vehicle taken without consent so the law is not unreasonable.
If you own a vehicle in my opinion you should be responsible for its use, if you do not trust the driver to act in a responsible way you should not give them the keys. Employers can insist penalties are paid by the driver and this should be sorted out prior to letting them lose in your vehicle. You are not liable for a vehicle taken without consent so the law is not unreasonable.
What a simplistic rose tinted glasses view you take of driving G&M!!
Well, exactly! If I check someone's driving licence and its clean, I put in their contract that they are responsible for any fines, then they leave and I have no way of contacting them, how do I have a cat in hell's chance of recovering my money. Especially since TFL take three months to tell me of the offences!
I will post the pcn up in a while if someone will be kind enough to inspect it for me.
The only other hope I have is that the signage is inadequate. Does anyone know whether there is exacting regs relating to how and where the sign should be? For instance, this particular sign is 30 yds back from the turning, placed on a lamp post at a height of 6ft in the middle of a bus stop marking and on a busy bus lane. So, if a bus is at the stop (this is a v busy red route in london btw) there is no way the sign can be seen. Does this contravene any regs?
The only other hope I have is that the signage is inadequate. Does anyone know whether there is exacting regs relating to how and where the sign should be? For instance, this particular sign is 30 yds back from the turning, placed on a lamp post at a height of 6ft in the middle of a bus stop marking and on a busy bus lane. So, if a bus is at the stop (this is a v busy red route in london btw) there is no way the sign can be seen. Does this contravene any regs?
That sounds worth pursuing. Of course a bus wouldn't have been at the stop on every occasion he passed I am sure, but how many of us observe every roadsign every time we drive down a road that we have got used to using every day?
My apologies, had just realised this and was coming on to alter post. The OP should still make formal representations and may well be lucky and get the tickets quashed. The legislation regarding this is an absolute disgrace and in my opinion is in itself illegal and ought to be challenged at the highest level.
Brace yourself then cos decriminalised parking is about to be introduced in your City
(I'm assuming you're in Chester)
-
If you read the opening post you will see that the OP was issued PCNs by Tfl for moving traffic contraventions nothing to do with the Police so he IS liable.
When I commited a moving traffic contravention in a company van there was a section in the paperwork for my employer to put my details etc. When it was returned by the company they had nothing further to do with it as everything was then sent to me as the driver.
Well, exactly! If I check someone's driving licence and its clean, I put in their contract that they are responsible for any fines, then they leave and I have no way of contacting them, how do I have a cat in hell's chance of recovering my money. Especially since TFL take three months to tell me of the offences!
I will post the pcn up in a while if someone will be kind enough to inspect it for me.
The only other hope I have is that the signage is inadequate. Does anyone know whether there is exacting regs relating to how and where the sign should be? For instance, this particular sign is 30 yds back from the turning, placed on a lamp post at a height of 6ft in the middle of a bus stop marking and on a busy bus lane. So, if a bus is at the stop (this is a v busy red route in london btw) there is no way the sign can be seen. Does this contravene any regs?
What a simplistic rose tinted glasses view you take of driving G&M!!
Its not that difficult, if you don't trust someone to take responsibility for their behaviour and any fines incurred in your vehicle don't give them the keys or make them sign a contract. If they drove it into a brick wall and left you with the bill what would you do, getting a few tickets is the least of your worries.
Its not that difficult, if you don't trust someone to take responsibility for their behaviour and any fines incurred in your vehicle don't give them the keys or make them sign a contract. If they drove it into a brick wall and left you with the bill what would you do, getting a few tickets is the least of your worries.
I believe you will find midget_bob did say he had put it in the driver's contract, however the driver was only there for 2 weeks and has since left. As for driving my car into a brick wall; that is why I have my vehicle insured to cover whoever I give the keys to so I would not be left with a bill.
PCN who's responsible?
's issued by TFL. Although the sign is rather obscured and dubious, it is there in situ.
Reply With Quote
Re: PCN who's responsible?
Originally Posted by Chesterexpress
