Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)




BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder kevmaz Novitiate

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    Default Invoice for used van.

    Hi, This is my first post on this exellent forum.I bought a used van from a car sales place, the advert for the van on the car sales website,reeled of a load of specifications for the van which included Air conditioning, whist driving the van home (but thats another story) I switched the AC on but it did not work blowing air but not air conditioned air. I reported this to the car sales place but were told it would need regassing at my expence.
    Told to read the invoice I had signed which states (I understandthat the seller of the vehicle takes no responsibilty for the working order of any sercurity devices which includes items such as Alarms, immobilisers, "RED KEYS", or stereros, and AIR CONDITIONING etc...) Surely this can not be right, this sounds like SOLD AS SEEN which I thought was illegal.
    Can someone help with this as this is just the tip of the iceberg with this van.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    If the add said air con, then that must be deemed to mean working!
    any qualification of sales is worthless unless it was part of the agreed terms of the sale, which you agreed to. unfortunately you signed the sales invoice which would make any claim a bit difficult!
    this would not be applicable or have any validity to any aspect of the vehicles road worthyness though.
    However I still think you have valid claim as it was advertised as having air conditioning and unless you were told it was not working before you paid for it. I would suggst you approach them on this basis and see where you get otherwise you would have to take them to court; maybe just worth getting done yourself, especially if the van was cheapish!


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    You receive an invoice 'after' the sale so unless these specific points were brought to you attention at the time of purchase, they have no legal power.

    Were you given the opportunity to read this invoice before purchase?

    What is the 'etc;' after air conditioning?

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  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder kevmaz Novitiate

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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniff View Post
    You receive an invoice 'after' the sale so unless these specific points were brought to you attention at the time of purchase, they have no legal power.

    Were you given the opportunity to read this invoice before purchase?

    What is the 'etc;' after air conditioning?
    Hi ,thats what the invoice states "air conditioning etc" No nothing was brought to my attention regarding faults I just signed maybe they thought I was a mind reader, because they also did not tell me the brakes were useless, a spanner warning light on the dashboard,black smoke emiting from the exhaust when i accelerate(I have had the van to a diagnostic center who informs me that the fuel injectors are failing and need replacing (hence black smoke)at a cost of 1400(ouch) they did not tell me about that either. I have taken the van back to garage twice to get these problems sorted out but they will do nothing about it. So what do I do now


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    There is only one thing you can do Kev - reject it under the sale of goods act.

    No amount of words can be used to take away your rights under the SOGAicon, and an ambiguous statement such as 'etc;' (which could cover every single fault you can think of or which you complain of and they decide comes under 'etc;') cannot be used to limit those rights.

    Only if they specifically brought to your attention a fault which you accepted or something they could not have known about, can it be discounted, but not for really obvious things that you should have noticed without being told.

    It is illegal to emit black smoke, so the van is not fit for purpose.

    When did you purchase the van?
    How old is the MoT?
    Were you given the 'advice' sheet with the MoT certificate?

    You can only reject it in writing and must not use the van again.

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  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder kevmaz Novitiate

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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conniff View Post
    There is only one thing you can do Kev - reject it under the sale of goods act.

    No amount of words can be used to take away your rights under the SOGAicon, and an ambiguous statement such as 'etc;' (which could cover every single fault you can think of or which you complain of and they decide comes under 'etc;') cannot be used to limit those rights.

    Only if they specifically brought to your attention a fault which you accepted or something they could not have known about, can it be discounted, but not for really obvious things that you should have noticed without being told.

    It is illegal to emit black smoke, so the van is not fit for purpose.

    When did you purchase the van?
    How old is the MoT?
    Were you given the 'advice' sheet with the MoT certificate?

    You can only reject it in writing and must not use the van again.
    Hi, Thanks for that, I bought the van 21-6-08,A mot was carried out on the van 14-6-08 also a brake test result test sheet, and a Exhaust emission test result sheet passing the van with no advisory comments on the mot (which I find rather suspicious) the car sales center I bought the van from send all their vehicles to this Mot garage. I have contacted my local Trading standards office who sent the car sales center a letter with my concerns, they said I should take the van to the the garage who carried out the mot, which I am reluctant to do that bearing in mind this is the garage who passed the van with flying colours. I have taken the van to a Bosch OFT garage to have diagnostic carried out, who high lighted various problems, I am self employed so I need to use the van to carry out my daily business no van no work no income.I sent a strong worded email to the car sales center on Friday (no reply as yet if ever) informing them I be shall visiting my local citizens advice center to see were I stand legally, do you think I have have a watertight case?
    Regards Kevin.


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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    Yes if you reject it undr SOGAicon, stating why etc. and ask for all monies to be refunded, This must be done in writing and you must not use it as you would be compromising the reason why you are asking for your money back; i.e. not fit and faulty, dangerous - no brakes!
    I trust it was a cash sale no hp involved etc.
    Youmay end up having to take them to court, how much is involved?


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    Quote Originally Posted by raydetinu View Post
    Yes if you reject it undr SOGAicon, stating why etc. and ask for all monies to be refunded, This must be done in writing and you must not use it as you would be compromising the reason why you are asking for your money back; i.e. not fit and faulty, dangerous - no brakes!
    I trust it was a cash sale no hp involved etc.
    Youmay end up having to take them to court, how much is involved?
    Hi, because the brakes were so poor, this was disbuted by central car sales (well they must be they gave me a certificate to say they had passed) I replaced the front brakes and cleaned up the back ones, brakes are now ok.I was starting to bite the bullet not knowing the legal issues involved or where I stood hence my questions on here, the van cost me approx 4500 cash. So far it has cost me approaching 1000 with diagnostic checks (another thing central car sales would not accept from a registerd Bosch OFT garage findings)parts/labour and loss of earnings,
    the potential bill to replace the fuel injectors (hence black smoke from exhaust) of 1400 is really the last straw and I want all my money back.
    Forgive my niaivety in what I should have done and what I should do, but I am just a ordinary working man who just wanted a van to carry out my business. So now what do I send Central Car Sales a letter under SOGA or do I go down the citizens advice road, which will carry the most clout.The only problem I have got now is still the black smoke (another certificate to say it passed its emmision test) 1400 would just about wipe me out.
    Oh by the way why did my trading standards not advise me about SOGA when I first contacted them?
    Kevin


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    I think your working on the van Kev will reduce or nullify your chances of rejection, it's not the same van they sold you, and as you have done work on it, they could even go as far as to say you caused the other problems as it was ok when you bought it and the MoT will show that.

    I think the best we can hope for now is a repair.

    Did the diagnostic garage do an emmission check and was it out of spec?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Invoice for used van.

    Agree with Coniff, If emmissions illegal and should not be on the road then the dealer must put it right at no cost to you.
    Under SOGAicon not fit for purpose, write to them and give them 7 days to respond and if they refuse or dont respond you will get work done elswhere and take them to court for the cost.
    If you reject the vehicle on the emmissions faiure ( probably sufficient grounds on its own ) you will have stop using it and may take some time to get it resovled, so you will be without a van.
    So its up to you. You can report them to trading standards, may help.



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