Hi,

I've been served with a cpr8 claim application for order of sale by Irwin Mitchell on behalf of natwest.

I dont understand any legal jargon at all being firmly of the belief that only shysters practice this dark art.

In Brief, this bunch have been persueing me for 2 years, firstly converting unsecured loan into secured and putting a charge on my home (sharp practice?).

The debt is for 12,742.72, which needless to say I cant pay, and they suggest paying 406 per month, some chance.

Today I find out a bunch called Face2Face have been to the house.

As I say I do not understand the 'law' but am probably guilty of ignoring and or not receiving court papers, nor defending myself.

I do however contest part of the value claimed, (some 4316 in bank charges etc), I have written to natwest regarding this (but only yesterday)

Help how do I get out of this mess

ok I'm afraid I don't know what a CPR 8 claim is, (have you received a previous CCJ for this) but all I know is that when you get an order for the civil courts you can make a CPR18 request for all information from the opposing solicitor so you can potentially fight a claim made against you on the following...

Non production of a Consumer Credit Agreement (which has to contain all the prescribed terms)

Non production of a valid default notice

You could also dispute the amount due to excessive charges too + 8% compounded interest....

You normally have to acknowledge a CCJ claim within 14 days on the date of the claim, then you get a further 14+3 days to submit a defence...

I'm hoping somebody can advise a bit more but this is what you should (i think) send to the opposing solicitor)...send recorded delivery

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

Dear XXX

CPR 18 REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

Yours sincerely,

XXXX (type, don't sign).

As for face2face...send them this letter by recorded delivery...

Dear xxxx

Account Ref xxxx

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully/sincerely

Just seen this on the net...

Types of claim in which Part 8 procedure may be followed 8.1 (1)The Part 8 procedure is the procedure set out in this Part.

(2)A claimant may use the Part 8 procedure where –

(a)he seeks the court’s decision on a question which is unlikely to involve a substantial dispute of fact; or

(b)paragraph (6) applies.

(3)The court may at any stage order the claim to continue as if the claimant had not used the Part 8 procedure and, if it does so, the court may give any directions it considers appropriate.

(4)Paragraph (2) does not apply if a practice direction provides that the Part 8 procedure may not be used in relation to the type of claim in question.

(5)Where the claimant uses the Part 8 procedure he may not obtain default judgment under Part 12.

(6)A rule or practice direction may, in relation to a specified type of proceedings –

(a)require or permit the use of the Part 8 procedure; and

(b)disapply or modify any of the rules set out in this Part as they apply to those proceedings.

(Rule 8.9 provides for other modifications to the general rules where the Part 8 procedure is being used)

Contents of the claim form 8.2 Where the claimant uses the Part 8 procedure the claim form must state –

(a)that this Part applies;

(b)(i)the question which the claimant wants the court to decide; or

(ii)the remedy which the claimant is seeking and the legal basis for the claim to that remedy;

©if the claim is being made under an enactment, what that enactment is;

(d)if the claimant is claiming in a representative capacity, what that capacity is; and

(e)if the defendant is sued in a representative capacity, what that capacity is.

(Part 22 provides for the claim form to be verified by a statement of truth)

(Rule 7.5 provides for service of the claim form)

(The costs practice direction sets out the information about a funding arrangement to be provided with the claim form where the claimant intends to seek to recover an additional liability)

(‘Funding arrangement’ and ‘additional liability’ are defined in rule 43.2)

Issue of claim form without naming defendants 8.2A (1)A practice direction may set out circumstances in which a claim form may be issued under this Part without naming a defendant.

(2)The practice direction may set out those cases in which an application for permission must be made by application notice before the claim form is issued.

(3)The application notice for permission –

(a)need not be served on any other person; and

(b)must be accompanied by a copy of the claim form that the applicant proposes to issue.

(4)Where the court gives permission it will give directions about the future management of the claim.

Acknowledgment of service 8.3 (1)The defendant must –

(a)file an acknowledgment of service in the relevant practice form not more than 14 days after service of the claim form; and

(b)serve the acknowledgment of service on the claimant and any other party.

(2)The acknowledgment of service must state –

(a)whether the defendant contests the claim; and

(b)if the defendant seeks a different remedy from that set out in the claim form, what that remedy is.

(3)The following rules of Part 10 (acknowledgment of service) apply –

(a)rule 10.3(2) (exceptions to the period for filing an acknowledgment of service); and

(b)rule 10.5 (contents of acknowledgment of service).

(4)Omitted

(The costs practice direction sets out the information about a funding arrangement to be provided with the acknowledgment of service where the defendant intends to seek to recover an additional liability)

(‘Funding arrangement’ and ‘additional liability’ are defined in rule 43.2)

Consequence of not filing an acknowledgment of service 8.4 (1)This rule applies where –

(a)the defendant has failed to file an acknowledgment of service; and

(b)the time period for doing so has expired.

(2)The defendant may attend the hearing of the claim but may not take part in the hearing unless the court gives permission.

Filing and serving written evidence 8.5 (1)The claimant must file any written evidence on which he intends to rely when he files his claim form.

(2)The claimant’s evidence must be served on the defendant with the claim form.

(3)A defendant who wishes to rely on written evidence must file it when he files his acknowledgment of service.

(4)If he does so, he must also, at the same time, serve a copy of his evidence on the other parties.

(5)The claimant may, within 14 days of service of the defendant’s evidence on him, file further written evidence in reply.

(6)If he does so, he must also, within the same time limit, serve a copy of his evidence on the other parties.

(7)The claimant may rely on the matters set out in his claim form as evidence under this rule if the claim form is verified by a statement of truth.

Evidence – general 8.6 (1)No written evidence may be relied on at the hearing of the claim unless –

(a)it has been served in accordance with rule 8.5; or

(b)the court gives permission.

(2)The court may require or permit a party to give oral evidence at the hearing.

(3)The court may give directions requiring the attendance for cross-examination (GL) of a witness who has given written evidence.

(Rule 32.1 contains a general power for the court to control evidence)

Part 20 claims 8.7 Where the Part 8 procedure is used, Part 20 (counterclaims and other additional claims) applies except that a party may not make a Part 20 claim (as defined by rule 20.2) without the court’s permission.

Procedure where defendant objects to use of the Part 8 procedure 8.8 (1)Where the defendant contends that the Part 8 procedure should not be used because –

(a)there is a substantial dispute of fact; and

(b)the use of the Part 8 procedure is not required or permitted by a rule or practice direction,

he must state his reasons when he files his acknowledgment of service.

(Rule 8.5 requires a defendant who wishes to rely on written evidence to file it when he files his acknowledgment of service)

(2)When the court receives the acknowledgment of service and any written evidence it will give directions as to the future management of the case.

(Rule 8.1(3) allows the court to make an order that the claim continue as if the claimant had not used the Part 8 procedure)

Modifications to the general rules 8.9 Where the Part 8 procedure is followed –

(a)provision is made in this Part for the matters which must be stated in the claim form and the defendant is not required to file a defence and therefore –

(i)Part 16 (statements of case) does not apply;

(ii)Part 15 (defence and reply) does not apply;

(iii)any time limit in these Rules which prevents the parties from taking a step before a defence is filed does not apply;

(iv)the requirement under rule 7.8 to serve on the defendant a form for defending the claim does not apply;

(b)the claimant may not obtain judgment by request on an admission and therefore –

(i)rules 14.4 to 14.7 do not apply; and

(ii)the requirement under rule 7.8 to serve on the defendant a form for admitting the claim does not apply; and

©the claim shall be treated as allocated to the multi-track and therefore Part 26 does not apply.

My feeling is you need to object to a CPR 8 because there is a dispute due to charges....BUT if they have no Consumer Credit Agreement then the debt is unenforceable anyway....unfortunately you can either dispute the debt due to unenforeability of the agreements/non production of defaults OR you can dispute it due to excessive charges, anyway without having all the relevant paperwork to hand how can you decide what to do !!!

CPR 8 is used for anything else owed apart from money.

My view is that they have commenced the claim under the wrong procedure.

I would ask for a directions hearing and ask that the matter be transferrerd to Part 7 procedure.

Then normal rules would apply, file defence, AQ and then trial.

Part 8 you dont actually need to file I defence I dont think, there is no normal 14/28 day rule.

N

Hmm, they appear to have the charge already on the property , so, they would be able to use part 8 if they are merely asking the court for an order , ordering the sale of the property AFAIK

Hi,

 

I've been served with a cpr8 claim application for order of sale by Irwin Mitchell on behalf of natwest.

 

I dont understand any legal jargon at all being firmly of the belief that only shysters practice this dark art.

 

In Brief, this bunch have been persueing me for 2 years, firstly converting unsecured loan into secured and putting a charge on my home (sharp practice?).

 

The debt is for 12,742.72, which needless to say I cant pay, and they suggest paying 406 per month, some chance.

 

Today I find out a bunch called Face2Face have been to the house.

 

As I say I do not understand the 'law' but am probably guilty of ignoring and or not receiving court papers, nor defending myself.

I do however contest part of the value claimed, (some 4316 in bank charges etc), I have written to natwest regarding this (but only yesterday)

 

Help how do I get out of this mess

Hi Larkshall,

Could you send me a scanned copy of the CPR Part 8 claim sent to you by the bank ?

I know this kind of case.

This thread is over 6 yrs old!!!!

Thank you havinastella