Thread: RBS CCA Request - Are they after my signature????

Look forward to their response. Please keep us updated.

RBS excepted my postal order, but then again RBS play by their own rules, the law doesn't apply to Sir Fred and the rest of his cronies.

Paul

Just drafted my reply, think its ok, here it is for reference and I shall await there reply...

Dear RBS...

Thank you for your letters dated 18th and 19th August, the contents of which have been noted.

You denied my reasonable request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account which I requested in my letter dated the 13th August. I supplied the statutory £1.00 fee as a Postal Order which is regarded as a universally accepted form of payment.

First I’d like to ask if you could clarify which piece(s) of legislation, or law(s) in the UK where it is written that a CCA request is only acceptable when accompanied with payment by cheque.

I would further advise you that I have sought advice today from the Information Commissioners Office, with regard to the postal order you returned. Their advice is that this was a “correct” payment and therefore 12+2 days for compliance should start from the 13th August 2008 meaning you have just 2 days to comply, as of the date of this letter. They further advised should you not accept this, that I should make a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:
If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.
And
(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

This letter has been sent by recorded delivery, in order to avoid any further delay in this matter.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Gruff

Deleted .. double post

The letters fine

Originally Posted by TheChancellor

I think this has now gone in the new regs (CPUTR?).

Yes your correct, thanks for letting me know, I have removed that point from the letter.

Gruff

Well the time has passed and I've been eagerly awaiting there reply and this is what I got:

I refer to your correspondence dated 28 August 2008, and apologise for the delay in our response.

I regret to advise that the loan agreement has been misfiled and despite searching our records we have been unable to locate it. Regrettably we are unable to comply with your request made under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act and return the £1 you paid. Notwithstanding this the loan agreement remains valid, and we expect you to continue to meet your obligations under the agreement. We should point out that if you do not resume making payments or cease to make future payments as they fall due we will report the default to Credit Reference Agencies ("CRA's").

The Bank is however able to provide a statement of financial information as at close of business 4th Sept 2008 re the loan ain this is enclosed for your attention

Linda Wylie

Wow a personal response this time, I am touched

So I guess this is what I wanted and although I think she is trying some scare tatics they are in default and the agreement is no longer enforcable, is this correct?

So far the account is up to date and the last payment they took would have been while they were under default, naughty naughty.

So next steps, cancel the direct debit I guess as I now have all the evidence for a counter claim should they try registering a default against me and send them up a follow up letter.

And here I come unstuck but was thinking of going the HM Treasury route and the money laundering regulations which state that they must keep hold of these documents (original or copies - which is what I wanted after all) that define an ongoing business relationship for a period of 5 years after the date of the last transaction.

The link to Rory's great thread is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...oh-dear-2.html
thats shows his letter the rbos and covers this in more detail.

I'll post the reply to them up as soon as I've done it after throwing some ideas around the forum on the best way to play it...

thanks all once again for any help/advice you may be able to offer.

Gruff

Oh on a side note got a letter from red debt collection services today apologising for trying to get 190 pounds out of me for an account which i had to point out to them was covered under the limitation act. so happy days

"Misfiled" !!. That is a new one, I guess, a bit better than we have lost it or shredded it.

Well I'm thinking of sending them this to see what they say... should I add/change anything?

Account In Dispute

Thank you for your letter dated 4th September, however I find it difficult to believe that you have mislaid such an important document as the copy of the credit agreement.

It would appear that you gave failed in your obligations to comply with the various anti money laundering regulations in not keeping such documents. This, as I’m sure you are aware is a very serious offence.

I now require the balance of this account to be returned to zero.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease and desist all future, manual and automatic processing of any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed Breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following would apply:

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to any third party, including but not limited to Credit Reference Agencies.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Please be aware, the CCA 1974 is very clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. As there is no agreement, a default cannot be lawfully issued as no valid, regulated agreement has been breached.

This will be complete defense to any court claim that is issued and any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

I would ask that you review this account and respond favorably within 14 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

I look forward to your reply in due course.

Yours faithfully

Hi All,

I've had a reply back from the bank now and now I'm confused as they are threatening to default me if I dont pay them, I thought they couldn't do this. How can I check if it is a valid agreement if they can't supply it.

Here is there reply:

The record keeping requirements under money laundering legislation are known to us and we satisfy them. Regrettably there are instances where, despite our best efforts, documents are msifiled and cannot be found. We have not committed an offence under money laundering legislation. You are free to raise the matter with the relevant authorities if that is your wish.

The only disability that we suffer from our unfortunate non-compliance with you s.77(1) request is that while we are non compliant the aggreement is not enforceable.

It is clear from your letter that you misunderstand the meaning of our not being able to enforce this agreement. It does not affect the validity of the agreement and it does not mean the that the agreement is void. Nor does it mean that a s.87 Default Notice we may serve on you (if you cease making payment under the agreement) would be invalid. Issuing a s.87 Default Notice is not enforcement, it is only a necessary preliminary step to be taken with a view to enforcement.

Even where we are unable at present to meet our obligations under s.77(1) we are entitled to take all steps short of commencing enforcement. Commencing enforcement would include bringing proceedings. However we would not take that step because the borrower could simply request a stay of proceedings until the s.77(1) information is provided.

The effect of a lender not being permitted to enforce a credit agreement was considered in a recent High Court case (Rankine v American Express Services Europe and others) and the judgment confirms as correct what we have described above.

To summarise the debt remains valid and any failure to on your part to make payment under the agreement will be reported to Credit Reference Agencies in the normal manner. If you default under the agreement, then for so long as we are unable to comply with you s. 77(1) request we will not commence legal proceedings for recovery of the debt but the debt will remain unpaid in our books until recovery becomes time-barred.

With regard to your Section 10 notice under the Data Protection Act 1998, our position is that the oneys you owe under the agreeement were and remain properly due and payable notwithstanding we cannot at the moment enforce the agreement if you default on your payment obligations. When you obtained the loan from us, the consent you gave at that time to the processing of your personal data covered reporting defaults to Credit Reference Agencies. Such processing of your personal data in these circumstances would be fair, lawful and warranted.

We woudl inform you that, given the processing of your personal data in this manner were consented to by you as part of the arrangement for lending you the money; it is not open to you to unilaterally withdraw tat consent. Accordingly, we do not accpet your notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and do not intend to comply with it.

I have no idea how to reply to this and any help is greatfully received.

Hmmm, they no they cant enforce it, but they will continue to default you for the following 6 years until such times as the debt becomes statute barred ?

They quote Rankine at you, I think that is one for pt2537. There are a couple of CAGers who have had this case presented to them and have successfully bounced it back. I will find the links for you. BRB.

Thanks citizenB, look forwad to the read

Here you go gruff. It isnt a long thread is a good read. In the first post there is a link to Dave firewalkers thread and he has his own unique way of dealing with this. It might not answer all your questions. So you might have to post questions on one of the threads.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-rankines.html