Thread: Help Please PPI Issue First Plus/Norton Finance

Hi Karen

There is an argument (sometimes in individual circumstances such as my own and suggested by the fos) that an individual should take up a mis-selling issue with the sales broker even though the actual lender is/was another company.

It's interesting that First Plus were happy to enter into a refund negotiation 'discussion' but when you said that you continued to be unhappy they fobbed you off with a referral to the broker. This is confusing to say the least!!!

Have you sent a S.A.R - (Subject access request) notice to Norton? If not then do send this with your £10 fee requesting all information and transactions on the account together with:

1. A true copy of the Credit Agreement as signed by (whoever)
2. A transcript of all sales conversations between the broker (Norton) and the buyer
3. A true copy of the Terms & Conditions of the loan in particular those relating to the PPI element of the loan.

Tell Norton that as they have already had 8 weeks' notice of this request, you are giving them an additional 14 days in which to comply with your request. Enclose a copy of your original letter.

Also remind them that you take the issue of mis-selling of PPI on such a large loan extremely seriously, as do the Financial Services Authority who regulate the selling of such a product and who have imposed large fines on financial institutions who breach regulations and guidelines.

Remind Norton that if they do not reply to your S.A.R - (Subject access request) in the given time period you will commence a complaint against them via the information Commissioner's Office for non-compliance within the Data Protection Act 1998 and the FOS (Financial Ombudsmen Service). You may also wish to add at this point that failure to provide you with information and engage in meaningful discussion with you may lead to court action on your part for the recovery of money as a result of mis-selling of PPI.

You could mention in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) that the loan was in joint names and provide these names together with joint signatures on the letter (does anyone else have any input on this point?)

Always allow the broker/lender sufficient time to provide you with information to back up their position. This stands you in good stead should you make a complaint or commence court action.

Please copy this S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter to the lender First Plus and send BOTH letters by first class registered delivery - keeping copies of your letters.

Pursuing this through the court? Really Karen, the choice is yours. You should read the Successes threads which will help you to make up your mind.

Please keep us posted as to progress and shout if you need any more help.

Excellent advice.
Keep us posted.

Hi,
I had a similar thing with Firstplus and the Broker was a GE Money company.. I had to take the issues up with GE and ended up in court over the sale of PPI. Needless to say the matter was settled out of court about a week before the second hearing.

Our loan was also in Joint names (conned into joint).. When I submitted SAR to Firstplus I had my Partner sign the SAR as well so that they would release all the information, which they did pretty quickly. Though that was in the early days..lol I doubt Firstplus will be so eager to send info now as they have got rid off 300 staff recently.

Good Luck

Ian

Norton will respond, but they will completely wash their hands of it! They are a very arrogant company, so I look forward to taking then to court!

Hi Karen

Thanks for the update although no surprise really as to Norton's arrogant response.

In order to back up their claims of telephone conversations carried out between the salesperson and the customer (you) Norton need to provide a transcript of the conversation. This can be in the form of an audio tape or a document transcript. It sounds from what you say here that this hasn't been provided. Very naughty

Yes, First Plus may only be able to sell their own products, but they are obliged to provide information on other similar insurance products and comparative prices (ie. tell you that other insurance products are available and that they may be cheaper than what they are offering!) so that you can make an informed decision as to whether their PPI suits your personal circumstances.

You have provided Norton with every opportunity to prove that they have not mis-sold PPI to you and it seems they are either unable or unwilling to do this.

You can now send them one final letter reminding them that they have failed to provide proof contrary to your claim of mis-selling and giving them a further 7 days in which to reconsider their position before you escalate your claim to the court (or fos but if it were me it would be off to court I go- that's just my opinion though).

Shout if you need help with a letter ...

Best wishes.

Hi Karen

What do you think about this?


Date


Your Ref xxx

Re: Account xxxx


Dear X

Thank you for your letter of date.

I write to inform you that I am not satisfied with the response you have provided to my initial complaint. I assert that I have been mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) taken out on the above named loan account, by your organisation and brokered by Norton Finance.

I requested within my SAR a transcript of the sales conversations and you have failed to provide these. You make claims in your letter (state these here Karen) which you have not substantiated via a transcript of the sales conversations.

Whilst you state in your reply that the loan application was conducted correctly via a sales script, your sales broker still had an obligation to me the borrower, to provide sufficient and appropriate information to enable me to make an informed decision as to the suitability of both the loan and the PPI to meet my needs and financial circumstances. This would include any exclusion clauses and the length of time that the insurance was available for. I should also have been made aware of alternative options available, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers, which information as a well known financial institution, you and your broker Norton Finance would most certainly have had access to. (leave this bit our if you want to, but I think it adds weight to your case).

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) provides guidelines which your organisation and the sales broker you use should adhere to while making both Advised and Non-Advised sales. "The customer must [...] receive sufficient information on the product to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether it meets their own demands and needs." (FSA)

At no point did I receive any such information, either by letter, document or telephone call which followed the above guideline. The documents that you have provided copies of do not contain any of the information that I have outlined above and cannot, therefore, be deemed as meeting the standard of care which you should have provided.

I reposed absolute trust in your ability as a financial institution to provide a reasonable level of care and skill in ensuring that my best interests were met when taking out a loan with your organisation. This has not been the case and I am extremely shocked and disappointed.

I would further suggest that the Principles of Business which are legally binding on First Plus as the lender and upon Norton Finance as the sales broker, under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and which are contained in the FSA Handbook, have not been followed. Therefore you are in breach of regulations.

You have a further 7 days in which to reconsider your position. I
request the return of (insert amount here plus interest) within 7 days of receipt of this letter by you. If you do not comply with my request, I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (fos)/commence court action against you for return of monies. I should remind you that the FOS take the issue of mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and in many cases, have imposed large fines on financial institutions who are in breach of regulations.

Yours sincerely


Your name here


The last paragraph gives you alternative options ... I would take them to court as I don't think they have a leg to stand on but that is just my own view. I realise that the case is for your partner, so he will sign the letter

Painty x

Originally Posted by KarenDerby

Hi

I am trying to reclaim PPI sold to my partner in 2006. He took out a secured loan with First Plus and paid for the one off PPI Premium. After reading about the mis-selling of PPI on here I believe he is a victim of this - the loan was taken out before we got together, however he was never made aware that the PPI only covered him for 5 years, medical problems in the past have been back surgery (which he is not covered for) and stress related illnesses (which he is not covered for). He was sold the PPI on the promise of 'Dont claim' for five years and your premiums will be refunded. I have wrote to First Plus on his behalf and they have offered a refund of £600 to cancel the policy and a reduction of £6 per month in the payment (the ppi which he no longer has still costing him £52 per month until the end of the loan!!) We wrote back saying that after taking advice we believe we were mis-sold this premium and we received a letter back from First Plus saying that as the loan was taken out with Norton they had passed the letter on to them. Norton have never replied.

1. Is it Norton who we need to chase even though the loan/ppi is with Firstplus
2. We have patiently waited the 8 weeks that they asked us to to receive a response and had nothing - what is the next step to take.
3. The loan is in joint names with my partners sister as her name is on the deeds to the property - she was never advised by Norton regarding the PPI - could this help us if we end up pursuing this through the court?
4. What do you think our chances are?

Thanks in advance

Hi Karen, I've highlighted the particular bit that mis-selling hangs on, and presume that the next statement means that he was not told of exclusions ...

Originally Posted by KarenDerby

An update and more help required please!!!!

Before we sent the letter that Paintball kindly wrote for us, we thought it prudent to ask for S.A.R's for both my partner and his sister, who is named on the loan agreement. We wrote 4 letters (2 each to Norton and Firstplus ) and sent cheques to cover the cost of the S.A.R's. We received replies to both my partner and his sister from Norton, returning the cheques as they are now saying that all documentation was sent to FIRSTPLUS for final approval and payout, they are stating that we need to contact FIRSTPLUS (Which we did at the same time as Norton).

When we first queried the cost of the PPI and the exclusions, we wrote to FIRSTPLUS who replied saying that as the loan was arranged through Norton they had passed our complaint on to them.

Is this a classic case of passing the buck?

Surely Norton have to send transcripts of the telephone conversations when we requested the S.A.R.

Is it now time to send the letter Paintball kindly wrote for us - if so do we send it to Norton or Firstplus or both?

Any help would be kindly appreciated.

Karen

You will need to pursue the broker who I understand to be Norton Finance. I am doing this myself with one of my claims so have a vested interest in helping you here ... But it goes without saying, that you'll get as much help form me as poss anyway ...

I think that you should send the letter that I prepared to Norton Finance, stating that they brokered your loan on behalf of FirstPlus. I think you should also include a statement about the facts they withheld from you as outlined in your first post.

I'll amend the letter now and you can alter it as you think appropriate.

Originally Posted by Paintball

Hi Karen

What do you think about this?


Date


Your Ref xxx

Re: Account xxxx


Dear X

Thank you for your letter of date.

I write to inform you that I am not satisfied with the response you have provided to my initial complaint. I assert that I have been mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) taken out on the above named loan account brokered by Norton Finance on behalf of First Plus.

I requested within my S.A.R - (Subject access request) a transcript of the sales conversation and you have failed to provide this. In failing to provide me with this information you are in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 78 (or Section 77 if the account is now closed) which clearly states that I am legally entitled to receive the information I have requested. You make claims in your letter (state these here Karen) which you have not substantiated via a transcript of the sales conversations.

In taking out the loan, your sales broker had an obligation to me the borrower, to provide sufficient and appropriate information to enable me to make an informed decision as to the suitability of both the loan and the PPI to meet my personal needs and financial circumstances. This would include any exclusion clauses and the length of time that the insurance was available for. During the sales conversation I was never made aware that the PPI only provided cover for a period of five years, nor that certain pre-existing medical conditions that I have would not be covered within the policy. This meant that I was effectivley sold an insurance product that was completely useless to me and I feel that your organisation has taken advantage of my lack of knowledge, which is extremely shoddy business practice to say the least.

In addition to this, I should also have been made aware of alternative options available, or comparative costs of similar PPI products from other suppliers, which information as a well known financial institutionNorton Finance would most certainly have had access to.

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) provides guidelines which your organisation and the sales broker you use should adhere to while making both Advised and Non-Advised sales. "The customer must [...] receive sufficient information on the product to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether it meets their own demands and needs." (FSA)

At no point did I receive any such information, either by letter, document or telephone call which followed the above guideline. The documents that you have provided copies of do not contain any of the information that I have outlined above and cannot, therefore, be deemed as meeting the standard of care which you should have provided.

I reposed absolute trust in your ability as a financial institution to provide a reasonable level of care and skill in ensuring that my best interests were met when taking out a loan with your organisation. This has not been the case and I am extremely shocked and disappointed.

I would further suggest that the Principles of Business which are legally binding on First Plus as the lender and upon Norton Finance as the sales broker, under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and which are contained in the FSA Handbook, have not been followed. Therefore you are in breach of regulations.

I would also remind you that the FSA takes the mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and you will be aware that recent investigations by both the FSA and the Competition Commission have found that lenders continue to engage in "poor sales practices" and that "customers were not informed orally of both the monthly and total cost of their PPI". (FSA report, 30 September 200.

You have a further 7 days in which to reconsider your position. I
request the return of (insert amount here plus interest) within 7 days of receipt of this letter by you. If you do not comply with my request, I will have no option but to refer my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (fos)/commence court action against you for return of monies. I should remind you that the FOS take the issue of mis-selling of PPI extremely seriously and in many cases, have imposed large fines on financial institutions who are in breach of regulations.

Yours sincerely


Your name here


The last paragraph gives you alternative options ... I would take them to court as I don't think they have a leg to stand on but that is just my own view. I realise that the case is for your partner, so he will sign the letter

Painty x

Amended as I think suits the circumstances but you'll probably want to tweak as you know the situation best.

BTW, my pooter has suddenly decided to insert a smiley every time I type the number EIGHT, so you'll need to change this in your letter ...:grin: