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I wonder if anyone of you can pass me some advice? Basically I've been given a £60 parking fine for the reason of "Without a valid permit or authority" in my privatework car park. I've worked at the company for 3 years now and do indeed have a valid permit to park there so was completely astonished to see this fine stuck to my driver side window! On getting into my car I notice my permit has fallen off my window and is down on the floor in the passenger side! Damn it!!! I'm not sure how long it's be down there, I hadn't had a passenger in there for at least a week. The rain was hammering it down on the day of the fine so I dont know if this caused it to slide off or become unstuck in some way! Those adhesive things never did look strong enough to me.
So my question is do I have valid grounds to contest this fine? I can probably get proof from work how long I've been at the company/how long I've been parking in the same car park.
This a private ticket and it is NOT a fine, it is a penalty charge and has no legal standing in law.
If you want to show them the valid permit that is up to you, but they can do nothing about it if you wish to just ignore it.
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Ok so its a private ticket - am i best ignoring it or sending in my appeal? It states on the ticket that the charge is paybale within 10 days and increased by £3 per day after this. Also states that they will contact the DVLA to obtain my address and the payment requested.
What do I do? I don't want to ignore it then have some massive bill in a few months time!
Lovely, cheers! I've just spoken to the chap who mans the office/car park and he reckons they are complete moneygrabbing losers!! He said he'll blag it to them as it happens all the time.
jim,
just to repeat all the advice from posters here who do not work for a PPC - and who have never paid one of these crap invoices - with no consequences whatsoever.
DO NOT CONTACT THEM.
heed to words of the man who mans your office car park. he knows them through regular contact. I imagine it is your quote from him that has raised the post from UKCPS themselves. let them figure out where it is - surely not all their contacts think they are "complete moneygrabbing losers!"
maybe its just too many to know...
Oh and UKCPS don't need to 'look at it' - it is already on their system
Jim23, in case you have not noticed peternet seems to work for UKCPS. Look at the other posts and you will be able to see where he stands.
Therefore please bear that in mind when considering his comments and then make your own informed decision on the appropriate course of action.
Regarding 1. above I have no experience with this PPC so cannot comment.
My view is that 2. above is a nonsense, that is why PPCs rarely commence legal proceedings.
In terms of 3. I just ignore all PPCs tickets now and eventually after a series of letters threatening all manner of activities, they just go away, takes about a year though.
If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.
Jim23
Just a hypothetical question, if someone wants to mug you for £60+ would you more receptive to accepting their advice than contrary advice from others who have no such financial incentive?
As someone who has had direct experience of both UKPAO and UKCPS invoices I can assure you that ignoring them does make them go away - does take a while though.
Could you please provide your statute and/or contract law citations to support your statement that private parking tickets of this kind are enforceable in contract.
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
To answer gwc1000 it should be obvious why we need the issue number to discuss the issue - each site and ticket issue has its own special circumstances.
I would have thought that you would be capable of discussing special circumstances without a reference number.
Love this bit from UKCPS website under appeals:
Enclosing payment and your parking charge notice will ensure that excess charges will not be added during the appeals procedure. If your appeal is successful a full refund will be given.
Are people really that gullible? Does UKCPS add excess charges when persuing through the Courts?
It is ironic that when you google ukcps the first hit is the UK Coloured Pencil Society. Could well be the same people.
I have posted this before Peter and you surely can't have forgotten already:
i) The sum is a penalty if it is greater than the greatest loss which could be suffered from the breach – in other words, if it is "extravagant and unconscionable".
ii) If it agreed that a larger sum shall be payable in default of paying a smaller sum, this is a penalty. Ford Motor Co. v. Armstrong (1915)
In this case, the judges reached the conclusion that the sum to be paid for a breach of the contract was substantial and arbitrary and bore no relation to the potential loss of the other party. It was, therefore, a penalty.
Trading Standards wants your help
Dubious website businesses Conterfeit alcohol and cigarettes Illegal sales of alcohol, tobacco, knives & fireworks to children Cowboy builders or tradesmen Car clockers Counterfeiters Aggressive selling
Never phone or accept phonecalls from debt collection companies.
If you don't believe you can win, there is no point in getting out of bed.
_________________________ ________________ _________________________ ___________________
Conniff
You miss an important point - we are not talking about a breach of contract or penalty charge - rather the contract states (usually but does vary slightly from site to site) that a permit is displayed (usually purchased before hand or given as part of a persons employment rights at that location) or a fee of £60 is paid to park there. So people without a permit are entitled to park at a location if they pay the £60 fee. Where is the breach of contract? Excess charges are added for late payment - they are not excessive - refer to your credit card company, bank or utility company charges for a comparison. We are indeed moving towards a discounted payment scheme for early settlement but at the end of the day it is the land owner or managing agent which decides the charging structure for parking on their land.
The breach of contract is the stupidity and inflexibility of the ticket men.
Originally Posted by from the op
and do indeed have a valid permit to park there
The reply to that should be "Ok, make sure it is displayed in future", not give us £60 which is an arbitrary amount thought up by your company, an amount they think they can get away with, which brings me back to my post above.
Trading Standards wants your help
Dubious website businesses Conterfeit alcohol and cigarettes Illegal sales of alcohol, tobacco, knives & fireworks to children Cowboy builders or tradesmen Car clockers Counterfeiters Aggressive selling
Never phone or accept phonecalls from debt collection companies.
If you don't believe you can win, there is no point in getting out of bed.
_________________________ ________________ _________________________ ___________________
Conniff
Excess charges are added for late payment - they are not excessive - refer to your credit card company, bank or utility company charges for a comparison.
UKCPS £3 / day works out as 1810% per annum on their original £60 ticket, the worst of the credit card rogues would be at 30%, outrageous but still only one sixtieth of UKCPS.
Peternet, if 1810% is "not excessive", just what sort of figure would be deemed excessive?
There are some excellent examples on this site - interesting reading
[LINK REMOVED - SITE CONTAINS POTENTIALLY DEFAMATORY MATERIAL]
You are right, it is interesting.
Much is also somewhat irrelevant and misleading.
************************* *******************
Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.
The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.
I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.
Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.
I admire your softly softly approach to dupe the poor victims of your company on this forum, but your facts don't stack up.
Of course, since you're in such a legally watertight position, has it never occurred to you to up those 'charges'? Make it £500, £1000, £5000 - it's all legal and kosher! Take every single person to court since you've got no chance of losing! You'd be able to retire in no time!
Back to the real world, what's the reason you make it a measly £60 + threat money then? And what's the reason you'd rather test the water and go to court once in a blue moon?
Edit - re. the legal transcripts, I can't find any evidence of the defendant actually defending! Their 'defence' is that they didn't see some signage. Any numpty can stand there and say he didn't see a sign. I feel sorry for them that they didn't have the legal knowledge to explain why their charges were a load of rubbish. The judge is not there to explain the law to the defendant - if he wants to stand there and say something to the effect of "I didn't see a sign so yeah, I suppose I should pay" then I'm not surprised he lost. I also notice there are no mentions of the cases that went the other way (with proper defences I assume). What's the ratio? 0:1, 50:1, 100:1??
Parking Charge - advice needed
for the reason of "Without a valid permit or authority" in my privatework car park. I've worked at the company for 3 years now and do indeed have a valid permit to park there so was completely astonished to see this fine stuck to my driver side window! On getting into my car I notice my permit has fallen off my window and is down on the floor in the passenger side! Damn it!!! I'm not sure how long it's be down there, I hadn't had a passenger in there for at least a week. The rain was hammering it down on the day of the fine so I dont know if this caused it to slide off or become unstuck in some way! Those adhesive things never did look strong enough to me.
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Originally Posted by peternet
