Admin fee from rental company on top of ticket

**newacre** · 5th August 2008 10:14

, in cornwall, while driving a rental car. and the cheeky b*****ds at enterprise have added a £35 admin icon

charge. i rang the number, on the letter, to discuss it and she kept telling me that it was an admin icon

charge. i said that i know what it's called, what's it for? she kept repeating this so, in the end, she gave me an email address.

i am going to email them and mention the The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1994 and how this has impacted on similar practices with the banks and the recent ruling. has anyone had any joy with this or able to give me any useful information.

sorry if this is an FAQ but i searched and couldn't find anything.

thanks.

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**Conniff** · 5th August 2008 11:15

You can't honestly expect them to have given your details to the authorities for free, there is bound to be some work involved and they are able to charge an admin icon

fee for it.

**newacre** · 5th August 2008 11:32

...they are able to charge an admin icon

fee for it.

yes they are but it is the amount that i question.

they have had to notify me, and the police that it was me, driving. so 2 letters which are generated by keying in car reg and date to their system. the letter is not even signed! one of the points made on the programmes about the banks making similar charges, for similar letters was that there was no manual intervention and that they could not, legally, charge for the setting up of the system or the database report etc. a panel of experts said that they could get the cost to no more than £4 or 5/ letter.

if it was a fiver or tenner then fine but this is a money spinner on top. as i understand it, this was the basis of the successful action by trading standards; not that it was unlawful but that the amount was excessive.

**Al27** · 5th August 2008 12:12

What do the T&C's say?

How have they taken the money?

I don't see how this is different from a bank charging you £35 to send you a letter that costs £1. I would imagine you could take them to small claims if you wanted about this possibly non-proportional penalty charge.

**newacre** · 5th August 2008 12:19

i haven't checked but the person i spoke to says that T&Cs say that they can take up to £50, which is no surprise. they wrote to me a told me that they had helped themselves to my bank account. i checked and they have.

thanks for affirming my complaint. this is my point, exactly. it is the amount. they can only charge what it cost them plus a reasonable profit and they would have to justify this, in court.

would still like to hear from anyone who has taken any sort of similar issue.

**Al27** · 5th August 2008 12:56

You cannot be held party to an unlawful clause in a set of T&Cs. Just because you read and signed it, doesn't make it binding.

Try adapting this letter and sending it off to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...bank_14day.pdf

**newacre** · 5th August 2008 13:23

once again, thanks and my point exactly. i claimed over 5 grand back from lloydstsb icon

for a friend, so am familiar with this sort of thing. first, i will complain to the guy behind the jump at the local branch. i hired it for 9 days and paid the £10/day insurance which brought it to a tidy £400. they should be able to find that £35, in there!

**crem** · 5th August 2008 22:05

Originally Posted by newacre

i haven't checked but the person i spoke to says that T&Cs say that they can take up to £50, which is no surprise. they wrote to me a told me that they had helped themselves to my bank account. i checked and they have.

If they have taken money direct from your bank account, they must have done so under a direct debit icon

mandate agreement. If so, you can inform your bank that this charge is incorrect and in dispute and demand they return the money to your account immediately.

Most banks try to "advise" you that you should take the matter up with the 3rd party company, but under the terms of DD mandates they must re-credit your account immediately and then THEY must take up the dispute with the recipient.

From there you are now in a better position to dispute the charge with the hire company.

**Bernie_the_Bolt** · 5th August 2008 22:16

Has the rental co fee arisen as a result of a breach of contract with the rental company? Showing that it has will be crucial to your showing that it is a penalty.

**newacre** · 6th August 2008 10:25

what a cracking forum this is!
crem - good point. i will contact my bank and see if they can do that.
Bernie - i have looked through
Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999: A guide
A guide to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999
"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith."

it doesn't mention anything about breaches. i know that the banking charges challenge mentioned that and that the banks tried to say it was not a penalty but i don't think that it is an essential component. it talks about fairness and i am saying that it is unfair because something has arisen; they have an extra, unforeseeable, duty to perform and they are making an excessive charge in relation to it.

i have recovered the contract. on the front it does say £50 but inside it says "A reasonable charge for processing any fines...". that is what the law says and it doesn't mean that any amount they say is automatically reasonable. the above article also mentions 'core terms' being exempt. i take this to mean that you cannot agree a rental price for a car and then say that it is unfair but that this sort of add on(which may or may not happen) is subject to the test mentioned.

**Bernie_the_Bolt** · 6th August 2008 12:15

Fair enough, I was concerned that you were going down the route of unlawful penalties. That IMHO would be a dead end!

**newacre** · 6th August 2008 12:24

mine, too. the list of 'TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR' in ' SCHEDULE 3' is said to be non-exhaustive. to me, that means that they are no more than examples and that the test of unfairness is a circular one and that you merely have to show that it is 'unfair' eg imblanced etc.

also, i don't think that they can escape their own statement that any such charge must be reasonable merely by quoting £50. i think that i can hold them to show that it is reasonable.

**newacre** · 6th August 2008 17:21

just asked the bank and they say that they cannot dispute it if it is in the terms and conditions icon

. only if it was over the amount specified or if i was saying that it wasn't me or something.

i suppose that if it is a legal dispute then that's fair enough but it is infuriating when otherwise legitimate operators attempt slap a huge charge like this and you have to fight to get it back.

**lamma** · 6th August 2008 19:27

the bank is just showing solidarity with other companies doing the same [problem] as them. what else did you expect from them.

**Al27** · 6th August 2008 22:22

Banks are notoriously evasive on these issues. I've had cases where I was entitled to a refund due the 1974 Consumer Credit Act and it took a nice letter and then an aggressive one to make them pay up.

They just hope you'll give up and go away, hiding behind the 'terms and conditions icon

' phrase as you've found out.

You need to start writing a letter to your bank.

**newacre** · 11th August 2008 16:38

i cannot really complain about the ticket, itself but it describes the road as a single carriageway when it was a dual carriageway. is this the sort of thing that nullifies otherwise bona fide tickets?

**crem** · 11th August 2008 21:40

Originally Posted by newacre

just asked the bank and they say that they cannot dispute it if it is in the terms and conditions icon

. only if it was over the amount specified or if i was saying that it wasn't me or something.

How do they know what is in the terms and conditions icon

if you don't tell them?

You need only to advise them that the payment was taken taken in error and is therefore not agreed or valid. Under the DD guarantee it states:-

If an error is made by [the 3rd party] or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid.

Why did they ask you to explain the error or did you just volunteer the info? Either way, I would ring them again and be much less forthcoming as to the background to it. Simply state (very firmly) that the payment was taken in error and you are invoking the direct debit icon

Guarantee which states you must receive a full and immediate refund.

**newacre** · 12th August 2008 09:40

good point. she said that if it was stated in the terms and conditions icon

then there was no point as it would just 'bounce straight back'. i then went to the branch and they gave me the debit card disputes number. i have tried them on a previous occasion and they wouldn't do anything. they tell you it's a legal dispute, not an error. however, i agree with you, they should not be making these decisions.

**newacre** · 12th August 2008 10:00

just rang them and they said that they cannot do anything unless i have been charged for goods i did not receive or charged twice or something. she wouldn't budge, so it is up to me to ring enterprise and make sure that they earn their £35

.

**Al27** · 12th August 2008 11:14

You need to put the situation in writing to your bank.

I've been there. They hate having to pay back and will avoid doing so unless you press your case.

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