Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
I have several large debts and have requested CCA'S from all of them.
Noone has come up trumps YET!! All are outside the 12 + 30 days. I am still paying them all through CCCS dmp.
I needed someone to check this so called Egg Credit Card Agreement that arrived with pages and pages of a Microsoft Internet Explorer print out, which obviously has been printed out to look authentic. Just didn't know about the attached agreement with my signature on.
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Egg usually produce compliant agreements and this one in my opinion would be hard NOT to enforce by a judge....
This may also help...
CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT
8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?
s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.
If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.
8.3 What are the prescribed terms?
The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:
* amount of credit – see Q8.
* credit limit – see Q8.5
* repayments – see Q8.9.
* rate of interest – see Q8.6
Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.
They need to keep documents such as a copy of the agreement for 6 years after the closure of the account to comply with money laundering legislation.
IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974) PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)
**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.
How doesunenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**
The Prescribed Terms are these
A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit
B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following- (a) Number of repayments; (b) Amount of repayments; (c) Frequency and timing of repayments; (d) Dates of repayments; (e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
--------------------------
Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?
For a Running Account (credit card) agreement
BC and D Apply
For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier
Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
And there is no advance payment
A is applicable
For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions
A and B apply
For a Hire Agreement
B is Applicable
This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper. Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.
PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.
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IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU
I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU
IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.
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Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.
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This is not a typical Egg agreement and there are one or possibly two points which make it unenforceable.
It is important to bear in mind that the APR is not 'the interest rate to be charged' which is a prescribed term for running account agreements. The APR is not a prescribed term
1)For cash advances there is no 'rate to be charged' shown. As cash advances attract a fee we would expect the APR which must express this fee as well as the interest rate to be charged to be significantly higher than the APR for purchases. The rate to be charged for cash advances is not shown. A prescribed term is missing.
2) A monthly rate of 1.093% is an annual rate of 13.934% which is indeed 13.9% APR because the APR is the annual rate rounded to one decimal place. However can a monthly rate be claimed as fulfilling the requirement in Schedule 1 of the 1983 Regs that the rate to be charged should be an annual rate? It is a short step to argue that the rate to be charged should be shown as 13.934% annually not 1.093% monthly.
I think that point 1) is a defnite point to show that this is an unenforeceable agreement. Point 2) is much more difficult.
I would suggest that you write to EGG and ask them what (after the transfer period) the annual interest rate for cash and purchase is. I am willimg to bet that they will say that it is the same as the APR which will be an incorrect dishonest answer.
The APR is not the rate to be charged. Take APRs from the agreement and you are left with
1) a missing prescribed term
2) a prescribed term expressed unlawfully and therefore missing (?)
There are Egg agreements out there that say the interest to be charged is APR13.9% Annual Rate 13.9% and monthly rate 1.093%. That is clearly unenforceable. Either the monthly rate is wrong or the annual rate is wrong.
Thanks Pelham...and some good points raised...i'm not an expert on these agreements and really appreciate your input....you're probably correct here, but I certainly wouldn't like to argue against a judge on these issues...!!
PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.
IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU
I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU
IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.
Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.
Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.
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Your so right.about arguing with judges and it is for this reason that all the requirements of Schedule 1 of the regulations are really hot air. The attitude of our judiciary is such that these regulations do not matter. However if a prescribed term is missing a judge is not allowed to enforce. and there are two prescribed terms missing in this agreement.
Having said that I have read on CAG a few cases where prescribed terms were missing and the judge has still considered the agreement enforceable. To be sure these were ignorant judges but the only way foreward for the borrower was to appeal which is a daunting prospect for anyone.
It's been a long time, no activity on this since Dec 2008!!!
Received a DCA letter demanding full payment, which is over a hundred pounds more than it was.
I have never, to my knowledge, received a DN, TN OR NOA for this CC debt.
I had already CCA'd Egg back in 2008, and received the following agreement attached, together with the Internet Explorer print out pages showing T&C's, obviously not linked to the agreement.
Just need a bit of advice as to whether I should now SAR Egg and some refreshed opinios on the agreement.
Hi Shelbelle. I'm helping a friend out and after cca'ing Egg credit card have just received what looks identical to yours. 2 copied pages of very poor barely readable signed credit agreement, and several pages of internet printouts. We haven't had chance to go through it yet but would appreciate any help and if you could point out what makes this unenforceable. The copy they sent us is dated March 2004 (2 months before yours) and very poor quality copy but looks the same wording as yours. I first need to check with my friend if what they sent is a genuine signature, but if so would appreciate help with any other avenues. The account is already in arrears and passed to a DCA.
Hi everyone
My husband has received a pile of something quite similar to the above!
The attached t's & c's he apparently agreed to, mention citibank who didn't own Egg at the time! These were right at the back of the pile...
Egg Credit Card: Is this CCA enforceable?
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