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Council and Bailiffs break law and ongoing saga


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I do hope someone here can help - I'm at my wits end with these people.... this has been going on for nearly 2 years and all I ever wanted was resolution!

 

A bit long, but here goes....

 

Background

 

Business went under, broke with partner and house was repossessed (2006).

Lead to some council tax arrears (my first awareness, January 2007).

 

Confusion and Logistics

 

4 sets of Council Tax arrears.

 

 

  • 1 to current residence but I was blissfully unaware. The council sent the bill for my CURRENT residence to my OLD address. I had previously phoned and given a change of address when I moved and also sent back the Voter Registration form.
  • When I found out about this debt (Jan 07) I phoned to arrange direct debit but was advised there were system problems and to phone back after a week. Tried afterwards, took four days to get through, after which I was told it was too late to setup a direct debit for the financial year!
  • This ultimately lead to a 90GBP summons fee for something that was not my fault at all! Despite my raising and questioning this several times, the council flat refused to acknowledge or remove the fee.
  • The other three sets of arrears pertained to my former residence. Two were in a joint name (myself and ex-partner) but under Joint and Several Liability I was held accountable for all. The third, however, related to the period AFTER I had moved out to my new residence!
  • After one court summons I was made aware of and did attend, the council would not accept any of my payment offers – despite the offers being the most I could afford. This ended up with a second set of arrears reaching bailiffs and incurring fees (more on that later). Again, 90 fee.
  • Bailiffs would not accept my offers – their minimum was 90PCM which I simply could not afford.

In short, each set of arrears was being subjected to its own court costs. I was trying to resolve two sets of arrears with the council and two separate sets with the bailiffs. No one would accept any of my offers of resolution despite my offering financial statements.

 

It also appeared consolidation was not an option, the fees seemingly quite lucrative for both.

 

Bailiffs Break the Law

 

The bailiffs attended on Jun 5th 07 and posted two final notices (marked “PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL”) through the front communal entrance of an Apartment Block making my personal business public knowledge. Two signed witness testimonies to this are available. It's also worth noting I myself was home! The doorbell rang, by the time I got there the letters had been posted and the bailiff had left - I answered immediately, so he had no intention of speaking with anyone.

 

Complaints I Filed at the Time

 

Local Government Ombudsman and The Enforcement Services Association. The ESA spoke to Jacobs Bailiffs who assured them envelopes were used (a complete lie). The LGO took so long to respond that most of this had been resolved (though it turns out things were just starting, see “Icing on the Cake” below).

 

Work with the Council

 

I received a phone call from the Council finally! (Sat. Jun 9th). I was advised arrears not with bailiffs would be split between myself and former partner. I was advised the council would accept 40PCM on top of my normal council tax to clear the arrears. I then received a standing order mandate for an initial of 50GBP followed by 46PCM – not what was agreed. Meanwhile, another set of arrears was rapidly moving toward bailiff action. It turned out the 46PCM was only against ONE of the sets of arrears and did not cover everything.

 

Simply no way to satisfy both the Council and Bailiffs when each wanted a payment plan for two separate sets of arrears (four sets total).

 

I made a last ditch attempt to resolve emailing the council yet another offer. I again asked unfair court costs be removed, the bailiffs be recalled and debts merged into one. None of this happened of course.

 

Council response, Jun 18th 07, a letter saying the bailiffs would not be recalled and the court costs not removed along with another insistence I continue the 47PCM I did not agree to or there would be further recovery action (more fees?).

 

I would add that by this stage, I had at least managed to get a couple of contacts at the council instead of dealing with someone different every time who knew nothing about the case!

 

I advised the council I would NOT deal with the bailiffs for any reason due their breaking the law. I again asked for court fees that were not my fault to be removed.

 

The council did, at this stage, make suggestions of plans of payment – again, not affordable (200PCM covering all sets of arrears!).

 

The Council Breaks the Law

 

When responding to the above saying I simply could not afford it – a council employee replied but, I believe she meant to send the email internally. I had noted that if arrangements could not be made we would need a committal hearing. The email read...

 

 

Please go for committal or do they have internet access in the nick?

 

 

...followed by all of the previous emails (was a direct reply capturing the entire email thread). This was subsequently blamed on “crossed wires”, followed by claims of it having been intended for someone else (so copying my history to someone else is acceptable?). Doesn't really matter much – there is no acceptable scenario for the above – whether meant for me directly, internally (as I suspect), a different customer or something entirely different.

 

Strangely, immediately afterwards, another council employee agreed to the payment plans I had previously suggested!

 

I was advised to pay the bailiffs 40PCM and the council 40PCM and assured this would collaboratively cover all debts in my name. I setup two standing orders for a period to clear the full debts on all sets of arrears.

 

I received two letters the week following. One advising that the payment arrangements were fine, another threatening a visit from the bailiffs! More confusion abounds but in the end I was advised it had been a “technical glitch”.

 

Icing on the Cake

 

Jun 2008, the last payments leave my account, actually making a slight overpayment to both the Council and the Bailiffs.

 

I then received a letter, July 3rd 2008, from the Bailiffs claiming I owe 245.15. And, because I had not maintained payments, the agreement was canceled and the whole amount due or there would be recovery action. I contacted the Council and was told:

 

When I sent you the e-mail on 20th June 2007, I stated that our balance outstanding was £405.65 excluding any bailiff fees. It was agreed that you would pay £40.00 per month to clear this debt direct to Jacobs. I have checked with Jacobs and they confirm that the total amount of payments they have received from you is £440.00 since July 2007. The total amount of fees on the two summons for this account they charged were £279.50 making a total balance due from you of £685.15.

 

The council said they would ask the Bailiffs for clarification. I was sent a statement from Jacobs Bailiffs. Details below (excluding VAT which was added to the totals):

 

(ref removed)+0, Outstanding Balance 0.00

Dec 6 06 Debt 87.00

Mar 6 07 Visit Fee 22.50

Mar 7 07 Visit Fee 16.50

Mar 30 07 Payment D/C 2.00

Jun 1 07 Levy Fee 24.50

Jun 1 07 Attendance/Van 90.00

 

Points:

Why visit ONE DAY after a previous visit? Hardly time to respond.

Levy Fee. They did not levy my vehicle nor anyone else's!

Why would a VAN be needed for a total debt of 87?

But, it gets worse...

 

(ref removed)+9, Outstanding Balance 245.15

Dec 6 06 Debt 369.65

Mar 6 07 Visit Fee 22.50

Mar 7 07 Visit Fee 16.50

Mar 30 07 Payment D/C 2.00

Jun 1 07 Levy Fee 36.00

Jun 5 07 Attendance/Van 90.00

 

Points:

These “two visits” are the SAME two visits from the previous debt.

How is it possible to charge TWICE for the same visit?

Again, why one day between visits?

There is again a Levy fee. How is it possible to levy a vehicle TWICE?

Again, however, the key point is that NO VEHICLE was levied AT ALL.

 

I again contacted the bailiffs and this time simply said I was not prepared to pay twice. The latest letter I have received simply states:

 

“We can confirm that all fees have been added in accordance with legislation and we suggest you seek legal advice if you are unhappy with the fees incurred.

 

Regarding your comments that you will not be making any payments, we must now advise that further recovery action will now be taken without notice”.

 

(which again amounts to more fees!)

 

Arggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I have had sooo much stress and hassle over this for nearly two years, I just wish it would go away. :-(

 

Can anyone offer any insights? I'm thinking it's time to get a good solicitor.

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

Edited by gsrigg
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When a house is reposesssed YOU NO LONGER HAVE LIABILITY FOR COUNCIL TAX ON IT so stick that point to the council, that should get rid of one of their claims. If they disagree complain to the Local Government Ombudsman about it - its a hard and fast ruling and they can't claim when you have no liability.

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When a house is reposesssed YOU NO LONGER HAVE LIABILITY FOR COUNCIL TAX ON IT so stick that point to the council, that should get rid of one of their claims. If they disagree complain to the Local Government Ombudsman about it - its a hard and fast ruling and they can't claim when you have no liability.

 

Now that is interesting. Thing is - house was not repossessed finally until Jan. 07.... so the 2006 arrears, I assume, still stand....? Is there any reference in law I can use/quote for this? I've searched around the net but can't find anything to back this up.... BUT.... if it is true, boy are heads going to roll...

 

Thanks,

~G

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Its in some documents I got from the court when I was reposessed. Have you tried looking on the Shelter website as I think this is on there.

 

What do you mean by 'finally reposessed' is that the date it was sold from the reposession - cause the only date that is active here is the date you were evicted. I'll see if I can find anything over the next day or so that is relevant and post the link here.

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Its in some documents I got from the court when I was reposessed. Have you tried looking on the Shelter website as I think this is on there.

 

What do you mean by 'finally reposessed' is that the date it was sold from the reposession - cause the only date that is active here is the date you were evicted. I'll see if I can find anything over the next day or so that is relevant and post the link here.

 

Slightly complicated. We had been fighting the situation for nearly a year - just about making payment enough. I moved out August 06 because relationship fell apart. My ex decided to stay and paid precisely nothing, not one penny, towards anything on that house... just lived there as long as possible until eviction in January. I'll google for the shelter website... Thanks again.

 

~G

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You shouldn't be paying the council tax for the period you didn't live there - are the council aware of the date you moved out? Your ex was then liable for the council tax on his own. I bet he didn't tell the council you'd moved out...

 

More importantly do you have proof of when you moved out that you can give to the council to be reassessed.

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You shouldn't be paying the council tax for the period you didn't live there - are the council aware of the date you moved out? Your ex was then liable for the council tax on his own. I bet he didn't tell the council you'd moved out...

 

More importantly do you have proof of when you moved out that you can give to the council to be reassessed.

 

I made the council aware - initially, they did not make the connection and tried charging me for her debt. That did get sent to her in the end - but everything else came my way (ye olde joint and several liability). Anywho.... that was part of the problem initially....

 

....they sent the bill for where I live now to the old address! Ex, well, she decided I did not need to know, wallop, I get a 90 fee.... even though it was the council's error (I phoned them twice with change of address and filled voter registration). To this date, they have flat refused to withdraw that fee. After that - when I TRIED to pay, I could not because they had "system problems". By the time said problems were resolved I was told it was too late to setup a direct debit for that financial year.... they're so effective eh? Bleh.

 

~G

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SS002d6252 - thanks, I was looking for that info. If you read the posts the OP moved out of the property int another address and their Ex was the sole occupant of the property until it was reposessed. They can't have been liable for council tax for the property when they didn't live there.

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Ok, thanks all. So I refer back to my original post.... anyone any thoughts? Part of me feels like giving up and setting up their stupid standing order for the next 6 months. But a bigger part of, point of principle, just flat refuses to pay twice / two sets of fees simply because of a "logical division of debt". That and everything else in my original post.... I've just had enough of these people and feel solicitor is due. ....but that might work out costing me even more. * sigh *

 

~G

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have you contacted your local MP? I know sometimes they can give a right kick up the backside and get things sorted.

PLEASE DONATE ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN

 

 

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

 

 

Go on, click me scales (if I have helped) :grin:

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Have you contacted your local MP? I know sometimes they can give a right kick up the backside and get things sorted.

 

I did, never got me anywhere.

 

What did, however, was email. I love email... it causes off the cuff answers that are in black and white and usable in law. I'd encourage anyone dealing with these types to use email....

 

Because I got this all sorted, all fees dropped AND a cheque because it put me in credit!

 

Emails went....

Me: "why levy two vehicles when one more that covers the debt?"

Bailiff: "we can levy as many as we want so sure as they are yours"

Me: "and on what basis were you sure when I live in a block of flats?"

Bailiff: silence

Me: Email again, demand answer

Bailiff: silence

Me: Email again

Me: Email again

 

Check post..... letter and cheque.

 

Hurrah!!!

 

Cheers,

~G

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