Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder scaredgoodpeople Novitiate

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    Default NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    We missed two council tax payments, a bailiff came last tuesday when we were out and posted a NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS, which threatened to return to remove goods unless we paid in full. When my partner called the number on the paper, they said they would accept £100 , then another £100 the following week, then another £100 the week after and the week after that the remaining £1000.32 must be paid otherwise they will take my car, which they noted the reg on the paper, with the words "24hour grace, uplift, ford KA". Well we paid £100 via debit card over the phone and they said they'd leave us for a week, which means this coming thursday they want the second £100. this will leave us with mo money until payday and we have a baby to look after. I called for a crisis loan but because we are not receiving benefits all we can get is an immediate needs loan for bascially pennies which wont help at all, the man made me feel like **** on the phone saying "we're not here to pay peoples debts" - we have never claimed any kind of benefits and are struggling as I would like to bring up my child myself and my partner works very long hours trying to make this possible, we just had a couple of bad months and instead of wanting just the £180 or so we missed they are now claiming the full amount outstanding to April 2009 - to quote the bailiff "to teach people a lesson". We can't afford another 100 and are so scared about the next few weeks coming, I need my car as I live out in the country and would be completely cut off from everything as im alone 6 days of the week while my partner works so hard to support us-because his salary just exceeds the bracket allowed for income support we cannot even get housing benefit so are forced to rent privately and its all so unfair, when you try your hardest to do the right thing and this happens. Please help, any advice would be so gratefully recieved.

    x

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  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder WWOW Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    I would suggest looking into benefits and this will reclassify yourselves as a vulnerable group because you have young children. It looks like your cost of living is exceeding your earning ability.

    Make your car safe. If a bailiff turns up at your house, hand this to him through an open window. NEVER open the door. NEVER confirm or admit your name and address. Tell him you canít answer any questions.

    To: [NAME OF BAILIFF]

    BY HAND

    [DATE]

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Re: Your visit to [ADDRESS AND POSTCODE]

    The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears from me however, there are irregularities with the amount you are seeking to charge and I am making further enquiries.

    This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

    Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as you demanded because it is unrealistically high relative to my means. I cannot afford to pay you £100 a week with a young family to support. I have sent an affordable payment direct to the council along with a written schedule of repayments.

    You the bailiff commented this approach of demanding in andvance before its legimtimate due date is to "teach people a lesson" and indicated this action is a penalty. As we are protected by common law from civil penalty under the Bill of Rights 1689, and protected from criminal liability without a fair trial under Article 6 of the European Convention, Iím afraid I am unable to accept your lesson because I (the defendant) have not been summonsed to appear before a court.

    Please be advised it is not a 'criminal offence' for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police and you may face a criminal record.

    Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property. If your fees contradict those prescribed by law I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint against you at your certificating court for attempting to defraud me under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and enfoircing a penalty without a fair trial.

    This document was passed to you by hand, and a photograph using a mobile phone has just been taken showing you standing outside the above address reading it.

    Yours Faithfully


    YOUR NAME
    Meanwhile send this letter to the council enclosing first installment (if due).

    Name of Council
    Council Tax department
    Address 1
    Address 2
    Address 3
    Address 4

    [DATE]

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Re: [YOUR NAME & ANY REF]: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]

    I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law has ruled an authority is liable for its bailiffs.

    On [DATE] I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. He demanded £100 every week including money demanded in advance of its due date. He admitted committing extortion by taking a car if I failed to pay. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became vexatious in nature.

    The bailiff commented his action and your demand of money in advance before its legitimate due date is to "teach people a lesson" and indicated this a penalty. As we are protected under common law from civil penalty under the Bill of Rights 1689 and from criminal liability without a fair trial under Article 6 of the European Convention, Iím afraid I am unable to accept your lesson.

    This approach indicates my current employment does not pay and I will now look into claiming prescribed benefits to make ends meet and to re-acquire a peaceful family life without fear of extortion from your agents. The bailiff threatened to take my car and depriving me of its use in any event would obstruct my normal course of paid work.

    I now ask the Council to:

    a) Take the case back from the bailiff.
    b) Accept my original offer to pay £[AMOUNT] a week to clear the arrears
    c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and
    d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money I cannot afford

    If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the local government Ombudsmanicon in fourteen days from the date of this letter and ask that you pay me compensation.

    Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly installments with a final installment of £[AMOUNT]. This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford considering I have a very young family, and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt. This arrangement will continue until the debt is clear or prescribed benefits takes over.

    This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

    Yours Sincerely

    [NAME]
    Enc 1st payment.

    Send the bailiff a Subject access requesticon enclosing a cheque for £10. Scan a copy of the cheque showing the cheque number, payee name and amount.

    Name of firm of bailiffs
    FAO the Data Controller
    Address 1
    Address 2
    Address 3
    Address 4

    [DATE]

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Re: [YOUR NAME + ANY REF]: Data Access Request & opportunity to mitigate incorrect fees

    I write pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and enclose payment of £10 the maximum prescribed under the Act and request you send me the following seven points relating to ALL accounts you have for me and anyone at my address.

    a) The name and address of the court that certificated the bailiff who acts in this matter

    b) The certificate number of the aforementioned bailiff

    d) All letters documents emails comments faxes personal opinions memos and other related information which would qualify as information defined under the Act.

    c) Written confirmation your bailiffs fees of £[AMOUNT] charged and they truthfully comply with the law.

    d) The name and address of the person or body who instructed you and the date of instruction.

    e) An itemised breakdown of all the fees charges orders costs and other monies that make up the total obtained by your bailiff being £[AMOUNT]

    f) A detail showing how much and on what dates I paid you and how much you have paid on to the creditor.

    I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days to fulfill this request but I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.

    I now give you an opportunity to check whether your bailiff has overcharged me with his fees. If his fees are truthfully compliant with the law, please confirm in writing or refund me within seven days with an explanation why I was overcharged. If I find an irregularity with his fees after seven days I will automatically file an official Form 4 complaint at the bailiffís certificating court for committing offences under Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your firmís director(s) may be liable for benefiting from a fraudulent money transfer or proceeds of crime.

    This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service on you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is now your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation. I regret I am unable to discuss this matter by telephone or in person.

    Yours Sincerely


    YOUR NAME
    For future reference, incase the bailiffs fail to comply with any of the six points in the request then you can reclaim the total amount paid to the bailiffs in the small claimsicon track. Sign up of money claim online here: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/login_pass_yes01.jsp

    And in the particulars of claim, enter:

    On [DATE] I was charged by the defendant, a firm of bailiffs the sum of £[AMOUNT] as fees, charges and unknown items and threatened me with penalties if I failed to pay according to a deadline. Their fees and charges are inconsistent with Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. I sent the defendant a Subject access requesticon under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 enclosing a £10 cheque numbered [NUMBER] which was cashed on [DATE]. The defendant failed to comply within the prescribed time limit and I have tried to seek a reasonable resolve with the defendant who refuses to cooperate. I ask the defendant do pay me the sum of £[AMOUNT] plus statutory interesticon from [DATE] under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 plus costs allowed by the court.


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  3. #3
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    Unhappy Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Thank you for your reply, it was so helpful-I've got the letters ready to post tomorrow, and the hand one in case they do call round, if they telephone, should we answer?
    I called my local authority today and spoke to a council tax customer service and he told me to let the bailiffs in to a means test, sorry if thats wrong I cant remember the exact thing but it was a means something but from reading posts on here I know that would be foolish to let them in? I told the council our outgoings exceed our earning capability but because partner is not on a "low wage" in their opinion we cannot get ANYTHING, the only thing we would be entitled to is me signing onto JobSeekers by Contributions and attending fortnightly interviews to look for work, I am happy to work on a saturday or sunday as that is the only time Grandma could look after her and Im not prepared to leave her with anyone else yet but I feel I am being forced to leave my baby before either of us are ready too.
    Sorry to go on but it's so stressful,
    Also, one last question, as we have paid £100 already to the bailiffs does that mean we agreed to their terms? We paid because we panicked before I looked on here, I can't believe I was going to let them take my car as that seemed the less painful option.
    x


  4. #4
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Hope this isn't too late.

    1. Park the car some distance away where the bailiff cannot find it.
    2. Don't let the bailiff enter your property. Lock all doors and windows, pull curtains where you have them.
    3. Contact the CAB and ask for urgent advice and assistance. They might be able to deal with the bailiff for you.
    4. Check out your eligibility for any benefits, although this might take a week or two.

    Check back here and let us know what's happening. We'll do our best to help.


  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder scaredgoodpeople Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Thanks again... My problem with the car is we have an open drive then we are surrounded by counrty roads so it would be a fair distance to walk back from if I parked it close, as its going I think if they did take my car its now the least of my worries, we need to get out of this immediate hole we're in but then living afterwards is going to be tough as its proven we cant pay rent and have any money left.
    I'm calling the CAB today again, hopefully I'll get through... but as stated previously I have applied for "help" from DWP an d all they can give us is Jobseekers for me but to sort ourselves out I would have to take a full time job and I just cant bear to do that yet, my daughter is 15 months and still even b/f-the main thing is I want to bring her up, not have someone else do it 5 days of the week, but there seems to be no other option (other than her daddy going and getting himself sackedicon(!))
    Its so unfairt as friends of mine that deliberately work for rubbish pay are having their rent and council tax paid for with income support to top up their earnings, ok, we are bad with handling and budgetting money but we're trying so hard, x


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder scaredgoodpeople Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Ok, letters have been posted and no work yet from Bailiffs, but partner is pretty sure it is tomorrow the seven days are up. When they call should we answer or if we do what should we tell them?
    Thanks in advance, youre so helpful on here its great I dont feel so alone

    x


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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Hi SGP {pops head up from other thread!}

    Did you also look to see if you are / were entitled to council tax benefit? Again, I'm not an authority about it, but I'm sure I've read that if your classed as 'low income' or in receipt of benefits you might have a case for the debt being returned to the council and have it recalculated.

    Someone else 'in the know' will hopefully come along and advise you further about this.

    K

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    NO NO no dont open the door to let them in, i know its not nice handing the bailiff the letter you were given as i had to do it friday just gone! i was shaking but i did it dont let them intimidate you, Th bailiff really thought i was gooing to hand over the money !!!! as he threatened to take my car too just for his fees .send all the letters off hope you got copies, mine has now been resolved and now only have to pay the 42.50 move your car a few hundred feet away from you house Im sure I read on here somethiing about them not being able to levy on a car on the road some ancient law im sure someone will come up with it. GOOD LUCK AND DONT GIVE INTO THEM!!!! gO BACK TO THE COUNCIL and ask to take it back dont listen when they say its out of their hands thats RUBBISH


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder scaredgoodpeople Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Thank you so much, it really is awful jumping everytime my cat even runs down the stairs but with all this advice and support i'm hoping it will be over soon. Sorry just one last question, shall we answer the phone to the bailiffs and if so- say what?
    Thanks again, and good luck Ted and everyone else who is victim to the
    bullying and praying on the skint and scared. x


  10. #10
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by scaredgoodpeople View Post
    good luck Ted and everyone else who is victim to the
    bullying and praying on the skint and scared. x

    What an utter load of tosh, i take acception to those remarks, NOT ALL bailiffs bully and prey as you say, Most are just doing their job and do it in a professional and courteous manner, however having read this forum for many months now i can see why certain bailiffs act the way they do as they are convicted like animals on this forum!!!


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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by kermit2482 View Post
    What an utter load of tosh, i take acception to those remarks, NOT ALL bailiffs bully and prey as you say, Most are just doing their job and do it in a professional and courteous manner, however having read this forum for many months now i can see why certain bailiffs act the way they do as they are convicted like animals on this forum!!!
    I completely disagree! Maybe NOT ALL bailiffs, but certainly MOST bailiffs!
    Honest decent bailiffs are in a minority. If you need proof, simply read this AGAIN......
    "An analysis of 500 case reports from Citizens Advice Bureaux in England and Wales since October 2006 found that 64% of bailiffs were guilty of harassment or intimidation, 40% misrepresented their powers of entry, a quarter threatened debtors with imprisonment and 42% charged excessive fees. In over half the cases, the debtor was vulnerable. In all these instances the bailiffs concerned were either breaking the law or in breach of their own industry code and nationally agreed standards of practice."


  12. #12
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by kermit2482 View Post
    i can see why certain bailiffs act the way they do as they are convicted like animals on this forum!!!
    The vast majority of people are in most respects 'normal'. If they regard bailiffs as animals that's probably because they are responding to the way bailiffs have treated them.
    In my own case bailiffs have deliberately and repeatedly lied. Is this 'doing their job in a professional manner'? Do you think I'm going to respect them for the way they have behaved?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    I've been threatened and bullied by bailiffs in the past - but not since I found CAGicon.

    The law about parking cars away from property 'goods and chattels' is the Statute of Marlborough. I've got a copy of this act if anyone wants some reading.


  14. #14
    Banned kermit2482 Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    You can quote statistics all you like but they dont tell you the circumstances behind them and dont show the lies that i hear every day out of a lot of charge payers mouths neither, it works both ways you know!! Indeed i have had a couple this week, Quote ( i was away on holidayicon and only got back today so forgot ) Oh yeah is that why i saw you yesterday and the day before getting in to your vehicle and driving off, Reply to that ERMMMMMMMMM!!!! YES the general public lie like cheap japanese watches as much to us and indeed the courts, its about time some of you realised that!!!

    Another example, posted letter through letter box in a sealed envelope as no reply from door, fortunately i had the Bailiff manager with me, next thing you know she's ringing up complaining that i posted it with no envelope so her daughter has seen it and that i told the builders whom i was and what i was doing there.

    Both of which were completely untrue and thankfully my Bailiff manager was there to see this for himself, so you see, i have first hand experience of the shoe being on the other foot and until such times as this changes you will continue to get the same response from me.

    some People will do or say anything to try and get away from paying what is owed, its the nature of the beast!!!

    You see the truth of the matter is probably that her daughter had opened the envelope even though it was addressed to her parents, however parents are going to stick up for her daughter and try and drop me in the brown smelly stuff, fortunately on this occasion it back fired on them, but what if my manager had not of been there it could have been a problem to me, not that you on here care and i dont expect you too as i have come to realise that decent bailiffs are not welcome by most on here!!

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    I agree there are some feckless debtors out there but they are in a very small minority. In much the same way, I agree there are some professional, decent bailiffs, but they too are sadly in a minority. The problem is that most bailiffs lie, cheat, steal, bully and intimidate, relying on peoples ignorance of their rights.

    Perhaps this is because they assume that all debtors are feckless. This forum hopes to change that by informing people of their rights and giving good advice. Not to mention, bringing down the evil cretins who break the law by preying on the weak. (Form 4 anyone?)

    This is not a situation of a few bad apples giving all bailiffs a bad name. Unfortunately, MOST bailiffs are the bad apples.

    Now, Kermit: I don't know you. Maybe you are one of the rare decent, honest bailiffs. However, from your last post, I can see that you have already overstepped the mark!:
    i told the builders whom i was and what i was doing there.


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    Banned kermit2482 Novitiate

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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by robin9342 View Post

    Now, Kermit: I don't know you. Maybe you are one of the rare decent, honest bailiffs. However, from your last post, I can see that you have already overstepped the mark!:

    Im glad im not the only one that sometimes reads the posts wrong, The charge payer stated this is what i had done, this was not done by me, i know only too well about the data protection act, but hey i know we all sometimes misread the posts so im not making an issue out of it You forgot to quote the few words before that sentence QUOTE Next thing you know SHES ringing up complaining that i had posted it with no envelope so that her daughter had seen it and that i had told the builders whom i was and why i was there!!!!!!!

    So you see i have NOT overstepped the mark in any way shape or form

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by kermit2482 View Post
    i dont expect you too as i have come to realise that decent bailiffs are not welcome by most on here!!

    Most people's experience of bailiffs suggest that 'decent' bailiffs are a myth. Which explains the reaction you have found here.

    As far as I'm concerned I read everybody's posts and make my own judgments on the content. There are a few people who are known to be experts in a particular field and therefore their posts carry more weight, but generally speaking I find the quality and accuracy of posts quite variable.
    This isn't a complaint, merely a statement of what I find. It doesn't drive me away from CAGicon but I do not accept as gospel everything I find here.

    In your case I read what you say and make my own assessment of its veracity. Much of what you say is credible. Conversely I am sceptical of some of it. But I'm not complaining because you've said it and I certainly do not advocate your gagging or expulsion.


    In essence you are just as welcome as anyone here. If people like what you say that's fine. If they don't there are many, many other threads to read.


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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Sorry, I'll rephrase: "However, from your last post, I can see that you have already been accused of overstepping the mark!".

    I certainly do not advocate your gagging or expulsion.
    Agreed.


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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by robin9342 View Post
    Sorry, I'll rephrase: "However, from your last post, I can see that you have already been accused of overstepping the mark!".

    Agreed.

    Well your entitled to your opinion and i respect that, as for the being accused of overstepping the mark, YES inceed correct and as the bailiff manager was with me THANKFULLY the Charge payer was lying through the back of their teeth


  20. #20
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    Default Re: NOTICE OF REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS - bailiffs calling again, please help!

    [quote=kermit2482;1631745]You can quote statistics all you like but they dont tell you the circumstances behind them and dont show the lies that i hear every day out of a lot of charge payers mouths neither, it works both ways you know!! Indeed i have had a couple this week, Quote ( i was away on holidayicon and only got back today so forgot ) Oh yeah is that why i saw you yesterday and the day before getting in to your vehicle and driving off, Reply to that ERMMMMMMMMM!!!! YES the general public lie like cheap japanese watches as much to us and indeed the courts, its about time some of you realised that!!! (quote)

    I KNOW from personal experience that most bailiffs lie, bully and misrepresent their powers. Sure, there are some bad people out there and a few good bailiffs but what matters is the way that the majority behave.

    It seems likely, moreover, that the statistics given by the Citizen's Advice Bureau which show that the majority of bailiffs misbehave are on the low side. Remember, most people don't go to the CAB or any other organisation for help. These are the most vulnerable people in our society, and if their experiences were added on to those of CAB I'm pretty sure that an even bigger majority of bailiffs would be shown to behave badly.

    The real problem is that people are being exploited. Parking fines, most of which on appeal turn out to be illegal anyway, are ridiculously high and downright scandalous, and council-tax levels are far too high for many people to afford. Perhaps if our government stopped making us pay for their illegal wars and made city slickers and other such undesirables pay more in tax there would be more money to pay for essential services and local authorities would not have to charge us so much.



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