Thread: Mint (RBS) PPI (self employed)

Hi
My O/H is self employed for over 20 years and we did have private health & sickness insurance at the time, but I am no expert and would appreciate any comments. Thanks

My husband opened a CC account in Jan 2006, the PPI payments has been taking out for 4 months & stopped after the account number was changed, (don’t know why).


I got the copies of CCA form & T C, with the very long letter, first of all it hasn’t been ticked in the box for purchase the PPI or not signed but only signed the “credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974”
They said that the investigation the following items or documents were reviewed his policy claims history, card agreement form, policy document and Telephony script , and that he signed without help from their staff, he specifically confirmed that he were self-employed.

Policy document – the policy clearly states the T & C along with the exclusions for being self-employed and states under your right to cancel. If this cover does not meet your requirement, please return all documents within 30 days

Telephony Script – they have reviewed the script that our staff member would have followed when he spoke to them over the telephone. This confirms that the following points would have been discussed with him. Full details of the policy, the eligibility conditions & the main benefits & exclusions of the policy, the optional nature of the policy i.e. it would have been made clear it was not mandatory to apply for the PPI policy. (still waiting for the copy of Telephony Script)

So they said they are sorry to advise that they have been unable to uphold his concerns in this instance. The policy clearly states the T&C along with the exclusions for being self-employed & states under your right to cancel if this cover does not meet your requirement, please return all documents within 30 days.

Also they said that RBS has not been fined for failings related to PPI and should he have any additional evidence that he think would alter their decision, I would be pleased to review this for you.

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Hello bobbie,

this is the usual fob off response keep at them for the telephone transcipts. Did you send Subject access request asking for all the data?

aa

"I got the copies of CCA form & T C, with the very long letter, first of all it hasn’t been ticked in the box for purchase the PPI or not signed but only signed the “credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974”
Apologies for quoting this but have you have received a copy of the agreement and it was not signed or ticked for the PPI?

I am literally screaming(silently of course to myself), the bank have said that it was a fairly sold PPI policy.
When was the policy agreed to? The application form is not ticked or signed for yet four months premiums went out of it. Not saying it is missold but that it is MISMANAGEMENT(slighlty more serious) of the account.
Please please please please tell me that they have said that it was taken when the card was APPLIED for because you have the evidence that the statement is a LIE(proven by the paperwork).

Thanks for your replies,

alanana, yes I do have all the data for reclaiming the overlimit & lates fees.

yourbank, Yes I ve got proof of it but will try scan the CCA tomorrow for you to see if it is missold, mind you it will be my first one to claim the PPI back and I need some help later on or will be better to wait for the Telephony script? Thanks

Regards Bobbie

Bobbie2, if the bank has stated in writing preferably, that the PPI was applied for at the point of application and the Application form does not have a signature or tick against that then the bank have no right to take it whether you are eligible or not. The paperwork does not add up. You won't get a copy of the telephone call because they won't have it. The telephony script they are referring to is the stuff that their advisors are told to say at that point in time.

Thanks Yourbank

Ok, few more questions,
Could I report them to FSA first about mismanagement or send them lba with 8% statutory interest?
Thanks
Bobbie

I think you can ask them for a final response before taking them to the ombudsman. State that they have MISMANAGED your account by adding PPI to the card when the application form is clearly UNSIGNED and UNTICKED. Give them 7 days to refund or take it to the fos. Your contention is that the account was mismanaged by adding PPI without any consent and that you were told information that is clearly set to mislead you and is factually inaccurate.

The question I have is this, do you have it in writing that the PPI was added at the beginning?
A follow up is specifically if they have stated that you took it out from when the account was opened. Does the application form MATCH the time period for when it was opened?
If the answer is YES to both, then you have them by the short and curlies and it is GAME OVER for Mint.That is why I was excited the other night.

Thanks for your reply, I had another look at the CCA form, The Account was opened on 18/01/2006 & first PPI payment was taking out in 15/2/2006.

Anyway I couldn’t find a suitable PPI temple letter which are for mis sold, so I done a letter, you can see I am useless in writing letters! LOL so any comments would be appreciated please.

Do you think that I could go for the purchase 14.9% Apr? or go for the 8% & about the spreadsheet, can I use them which it's for Bank/CC charges? Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam

Credit Card account xxxxxxx

I refer to your letter dated xx/xx/xxx regarding my complaint that the Payment Protection Insurance for my Credit Card was mismanaged and I am not satisfied with your explanations. You have mismanaged my account by adding PPI to the card when the application form is clearly UNSIGNED and UNTICKED.

I have calculated interest at 14.9% APR., which I estimate was your APR at the time, I am sure you will advise me if the APR at the time was different. Alternatively I will ask the Court to allow me statutory interest at 8% under S69 of the Count Court Act.

I am writing to ask that you pay the amount of £xxxx within the next 7 days/14 days?. I expect payment by cheque made payable to xxx. If you fail to do this I will have no alternative to take it to the fos/Court?

Your contentions is that the account was mismanaged by adding PPI without any consent and that you were told information that is clearing set to mislead me and is factually inaccurate.

I expect your response before xx July 2008

Yours faithfully

Bump:-?

hello bobbie,

this is my letter please have a look and if you can use any of it in regard to your own claim please feel free to copy anything which you think will help you with your own.

The Royal Bank of Scotland
xxx
Dear xx xxxxxxxxxx,
Re: Loan accounts. Reference numbers:
xxx Account No xxx
xxx Account No xxx
xxx Account No xxx
References:
A. My Subject access request (S.A.R - (Subject access request)) dated 7 January 2008.
B. Your xxx (Acknowledgement).
C. My xxx (Supply of additional information).
D. Your xxx(Supply of copies of statements).
E. Your xxx (Forwarded information to branch).
F. Your xxx (Duplicate statements for account xxx).
G. Your xxx (Duplicate statements for account xxx and request for more information).
H. xxx (Letter stating full disclosure as requested in Reference A had not been received and concern over missing data).
I. Duplicate statements for account xxxx no letter attached.
J. Your xxx requesting dates, times, names and departments re telephone conversations.
K. My xxx requesting full details as required by my reference A including all records of all telephone conversations.
L. My xxx forwarding my xxx with attachments.
M. My xxx CCA request for loans.
N. Your letter with reference Your xxx enclosing information with regard to account xxx.
O. My xxx requesting further data.
P. Your letter with ref Your xxx stating you do not have the paperwork on two previous loans.
Q. My xxx my response to Reference P.

I write in regard to the above References A - Q. Sadly, The Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) have so far failed to comply fully with my DSAR in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 (despite the correct procedures being followed and the correct fees being submitted) for the provision of all data applicable to myself and the three loan accounts. I have submitted a separate letter on this subject to the Data Protection Officer and, indeed, have lodged a formal complaint with the Information Commissioners Office. You have forwarded copies of the three Loan account statements, my current account statement and information as requested in Reference M.

In each case PPI policies were attached to the above loans obtained from you on 8 March 2004, 20 May 2005 and 21 August 2006.

I am now convinced that I was mis-sold these PPI policies for the following 7 reasons:

1. Responsibilities When Underwriting a Policy of Insurance: On each occasion, when the details of a loan were discussed Your sales advisors failed to check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do when underwriting a Policy of Insurance. If they had done so, they would have realised that the PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

2. Alternative Insurance Cover: Your sales advisors in each case failed to ask me if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package and a substantial payment would be made in the event of my death in service (more than suffice to clear the balance of the loan).


3.Failure to Supply Important Information with Regard to Significant Policy Exclusions: I was most definitely not informed that the PPI policies could contain certain exclusions which could affect me and my ability to claim on the policies if I should need to. Additionally I was never told that Pre Existing Medical Conditions could invalidate my policy and I was never asked if I had any Pre Existing Medical Conditions. Indeed your Loan Customer Duty of Care Checklist and the Loanguard Certificate of Insurance to which the Customer Duty of Care Checklist refers (forwarded under cover of Reference N) contain no reference to any Pre Existing Medical Conditions or includes any questions to me on the subject. I am in fact in receipt of a 40% War Disablement Pension from Her Majesty’s Government (HMG) since 1991. One element of this pension includes back injury which I now know is an exclusion in your PPI Policies. I also believe that I would also be excluded on at least one other existing condition.

4. Widespread PPI Mis-Selling: I cancelled the PPI policy on xxxAccountNo xxx on 7 Jan 2007 after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions, following recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I believe this is borne out by Point 3 above. I am also aware that the question of PPI cover is the subject of an ongoing inquiry by the Competition Commissioner.

5. Wholly Inappropriate PPI Selling Bonuses: I understand that some employees are paid higher bonuses if they get prospective creditors to take out PPI with loans. How can the best interests of the customer possibly be met, if there is a clear conflict of interest between your responsibilities to me, and the drive of your employees to sell Payment Protection Insurance whether it is suitable or not in order to receive bonuses?

6. PPI Loan Interest payments miscalculated: Since I cancelled the policy, I have actually received a smaller reduction in the PPI loan interest payments than the figure stated on the agreement. The explanatory letter sent to me has, I believe, confirmed that I have paid for single premium PPI policies on each loan taken with your establishment.

7. True Nature of Single Premium PPI Not Explained: No explanation was forthcoming from any advisor on any occasion on the full extent of single premium PPI policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the loan was settled early or if the insurance was cancelled. The statements you have forwarded on accounts xxx and xxx, show no element of any refund of PPI or PPI interest when the accounts were settled on refinancing. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI premium would be added to the total cost of credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

I now believe that the single premium PPI policies attached to the loan accounts were both extremely unfair and totally unreasonable and offered me very little, if any protection value whatsoever. I am therefore requesting a full refund of all costs including all single PPI premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date.

Furthermore as I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money, I also expect the repayment of the interest at the Statutory Interest rate of 8% applicable to of each of the single premiums.

Details of the single premiums for each account with the interest payments made are as follows:

xxx Account No xxx
Insurance premium including interest on the premium = £6,109.32
Monthly interest payments made 8 April 2004 to 9 May 2005 £72.73 X 14 = £1,018.22
Sub Total £7127.54 Plus @ 8% Statutory Interest £570.20 =
Total sum £7,697.74

xxx Account No xxx
Insurance premium including interest on the premium = £7,534.90
Monthly interest payments made 20 June 2005 to 20 July 2006 £89.70 X 14 £1,255.80
Sub total £8,790.70 plus @ 8% Statutory Interest £703.25 =
Total sum £9,493.95

xxx Account No xxx
Insurance premium including interest on the premium = £8448.72 Less rebate on PPI premium £5,598.03 and rebate on PPI interest £1,552.78 (£7,150.81) = £1,297.91
Monthly interest payments made 20 September 2007 to 22 January 2007 £100.58 X 5 £502.90
Sub total £1,800.81 plus @ 8% Statutory Interest £144.06 =
Total sum £1,944.87

The total repayment figure I require is: £19,136.56

If I do not receive a favourable response to this letter, I will pursue my claim through the Financial Ombudsman Service (fos) and indeed the Courts if necessary.

In Reference P paragraph 2 you stated, “With regard to the two loans with DLFS this has been passed on to the relevant Department who will correspond directly with you“. I still await correspondence from that Department in relation to that information. Please expedite a reply from this Department at your earliest convenience.

Yours faithfully,

name

regards

aa

Good luck

aa