Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Ok
I have experience with both GE and CL.
First things first I take it you are in debt with GE who passed the account onto Cl who will take you to court have no doubt about that please.
Ok the first thing you need to do is send a CCA request to CL to buy you more time.
Here is a letter I have used that is not pre posted on this site and send it to CL recorded delivery without delay also remember that CL are part of the Lewis Group look them up on google for more info or just ask me.
I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.
I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.
1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number xxxxx.
2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.
3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.
As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.
Yours Sincerely
Ok once you have sent this then deal with GE, you need to send them a template letter for PPI and for charges.
If you require more help just ask on this thread i will keep my eye out for you
Regards
Adamski
Lloyds TSB (SARS) request sent 9th June 2006
£2191 Moneyclaim Issued 11/08/2006, Acknowleded 17th August Defence 14 Sep, AQ returned 5/10/2006.SETTLED IN FULL £2,670 26/11/2006/ Lloyds Credit Card SETTLED IN FULL £267 MBNA SETTLED IN FULL 15/09/2006 £829 Citicard (SARS) request sent 22nd June 2006 Moneyclaim issued 19th Sep, Defence and AQ received 5/10/2006, AQ returned 5/10/2006, part refund received 10/10/2006
GE MONEY SETTLLED IN FULL £400
Barclaycard Me and Mrs SARS sent 19/10/2006 settled £350
Welcome Finance PPI 2 accounts one settled £1018 waiting on other
GE Money PPI 1 account settled 8/5/2008 £560 2nd account SETTLED IN FULL £3,599.78p 15thAugust 2008
Lloyds TSB PPI CC complaint sent 10/04/2008
Black Horse PPI with FOS 20/05/2008
HFC PPI complaint sent 22/05/2008
Sorry for late reply but been on holiday and busy at work!
Think I might not have been clear in the last post. CL Finance have stopped the threatening letters now as I've been paying them an agreed amount for over 18 months for the Debenhams debt.
But I'm now looking at claiming back PPI on various credit accounts that's why I needed to know who to CCA to see if I'd ever paid any PPI on this account.
I sent my CCA request and £1 postal order to CL on 12 August and have had no response as yet - so thats 15 days putting CL in default.
I haven't CCA'd GE Capital because I now deal with CL Finance and they should be able to provide a copy of the CCA as they have been assigned the debt.
I'm in the same situation with Cabot. I'm looking at sending a letter stating they are in default for non-compliance of the CCA request and as such the debt is thefore unenforceable. But as a gesture of my goodwill I will offer a F&F settlement of say 5-10% of the debt..
I've been advised that I can stop payments but I really can't go through all the hassle of phone calls, threatening letters etc and would rather pay a small sum to get this debt paid off.
I'm in the same situation with Cabot. I'm looking at sending a letter stating they are in default for non-compliance of the CCA request and as such the debt is thefore unenforceable. But as a gesture of my goodwill I will offer a F&F settlement of say 5-10% of the debt..
I've been advised that I can stop payments but I really can't go through all the hassle of phone calls, threatening letters etc and would rather pay a small sum to get this debt paid off.
what do you think?
I can't comment about CL finance as I am only looking at this thread for inspiration to start my own battle against them. However, in regards to Cabot ... I CCA'd them in Feb for both mine and my hubbys credit cards (total approx £7k) received acknowledgements and letters back saying they couldn't provide and account is on hold until they do - this was Feb 08 - few weeks ago got letters saying they had stopped action on our account as they couldn't provide docs but if original creditor found them they would get in touch
So obviously your decision but we didn't get any threatening phone calls or hassling letters
Good Luck
Cabot - £7000 - can't provide docs
Red Castle/GUS - unenforcable - phoney docs
Halifax £2000 bank charges refunded 12/7/07
Halifax (round 2) - LBA 30/8/08 - £2500 back within 3 weeks
Nat West - £2,000 - WON offer dated 7th December 2009 (a week after the Supreme Court Ruling !!!!)
In progress
Yorkshire (hubby) - LBA sent, discussion reggarding hardship undertaken waiting to see what their plans are after Supreme Court Case
Capital 1 - SAR'd - typed docs provided not originals gonna play letter ping pong for a while
Halifax Visa - when I get a moment
Halifax personal loan - when I get a moment
If all these come to cash I'll be a millionaire (ish)
Well low and behold on Saturday morning a letter from CL Finance in the post with a copy of my original credit agreement for my Debenhams account - typical!
It looks like a genuine agreement as well so don't suppose there's a lot I can do with this one unless I offer a F&F and see if they accept.
Does anyone know how much CL Finance normally pay when they buy a debt - what %?
Well low and behold on Saturday morning a letter from CL Finance in the post with a copy of my original credit agreement for my Debenhams account - typical! Remember the agreement was with Debenhams and no one else, no DCA and if Debenhams use GE then as I see it the agreement is still with Debenhams
It looks like a genuine agreement as well so don't suppose there's a lot I can do with this one unless I offer a F&F and see if they accept.
Does anyone know how much CL Finance normally pay when they buy a debt - what %?
It seems to me from your original post that you had an agreement with Debenhams so I would suggest the CCA is with them as agreed by you and their representative at the time. (duly signed by both parties. There was no agreement entered into with CL finance who will be a debt collection Agency so you are not committed to deal with them as your CCA was with Debenhams. If GE money who deal with the Debenhams accounts wish to pass on any debt to a DCA then I see that as their problem and not yours.
I am no legal expert but it would in my opinion be out of line for a DCA to use the CCA as agreed with Debenhams as a way to reclaim monies from you. You had no agreement with CL finance full stop.
Legal advice from the site team welcome on this one.
Hi TMAngle,
Did you receive any written confirmation from Debenhams/GE Money that your account had been assigned to CL finance.
It is my opinion that if your account had been properly assigned, and the agreement isfound to be in order then CL can pursue you for payment.
In addition you could send an SAR to Debenhams/GE Money, however you have also paid monies to CL finance so that information would need come from them IMHO.
Regards
Andy
Advice is based on my personal opinion, and what I have learnt from this forum.
If you need legal advice please consider consulting a lawyer.
The original agreement is with GE Capital for a Debenhams Account. I've already sent a recorded delivery request to CL Finance for a copy of the Notice of Assignment of the debt so will let you know what they come up with.
I'm not trying to avoid paying the debt because I've been paying CL a monthly figure for about 2 years now and they seem quite happy with this. I just wanted to to try and find a good enough 'argument' to offer them a reasonable/acceptable F&F settlement to get rid of this debt for good.
If they do come up with the Letter of Assignment then I'm not sure what offer to make them (£2k debt)?
The original agreement is with GE Capital for a Debenhams Account. I've already sent a recorded delivery request to CL Finance for a copy of the Notice of Assignment of the debt so will let you know what they come up with.
I'm not trying to avoid paying the debt because I've been paying CL a monthly figure for about 2 years now and they seem quite happy with this. I just wanted to to try and find a good enough 'argument' to offer them a reasonable/acceptable F&F settlement to get rid of this debt for good.
If they do come up with the Letter of Assignment then I'm not sure what offer to make them (£2k debt)?
Hello TMangel.
I do feel that assignment of account to a DCA comes under the law of property act 1925 and I do doubt very much whether they will send you a copy of it. You can ask for it, but I would also ask whether the assignment is equitable or absolute. There is a big difference in who actually ownes or joint ownes the account.
Now before you fold and offer them a f & f settlement. You need to to a bit more investigating into the account. If there is any untoward with the account, then it makes a big difference as to what they will accept
Regarding the credit agreement, bet they jumped up and down when they found it Does it contain all of the prescribed terms it should under the cca. Is it marked application form perchance.
How much PPI is there on it for you to reclaim back.
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
Just found out that PPI wasn't added to the Debenhams account. But I have received another letter from CL Finance in request of my CCA and Notice of Assignment letter:
They've attached a copy of the original Application Form which also states Credit Agreement regulated by CCA 1974 as well.
They have also enclosed a copy of a Deed of Assignment and Assignation dated 13 December 2006.
If someone can tell me how to upload I'll put it all on here so you can advise me on what to do next.
With regards to charges I didn't SAR CL Finance/GE Capital so don't have exact figures but don't expect it to be in excess o £150.
Where do I go from here as it looks all above board on their part?
Just wondered if someone experienced could have a quick look at the documents in my previous post.
Are they enforceable?
Thanks!
Hello TMA,
Have had a look. The credit agreement is on its side and I am unable to rotate it to have a good look. I can make out that it starts off as an application form
The terms and conditions are too blurred to read,so cannot see if they relate to when you opened the account.
The deed of assignment looks ofay, but as this is the first one that I have seen, they normally will not give it to you.
I feel to be honest that I does not matter if the DOA is correct or not. It comes down to the credit agreement.
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
Hi would someone be able to look at my last post and see if the CCA that CL Finance have provided is actually enforceable.
I'm pretty sure it is but just want a more experienced bod to confirm.
I'm trying to clear some debts so would like to offer a F&F settlement to CL Finance but obviously this amount would depend on whether the CCA is enforceable.
im subscribing to your thread as ive had a very similar supposed cca from cl finance but ive only had the first page with my signature, but to me looks like an application for, as there is a section 5 that states" Customer information and data protection, - in assessing your application we will make enquiries about you including searching any records held by credit Reference Agencies, etc etc
that to me without sending me the rear where the supposed terms and conditions on he back of this agreement in section 7.
i didnt get more than upto section 6.
I think i also got a letter of assignment from cl, and had paid them a couple of months but now i too am looking at a Full and final offer
but if they dont have an enforceable agreement when they bought the debt tough on them they should be accurate in such things, i will make them a reasonable offer.
ive tried to copy like you have but i cant get it big enough to read, its not very good copy and not clear to read before i even scan it, any suggestions pls how i can make it larger - ta very much thanks laters maz
Sorry but I'm new to all this and haven't got a clue how to make the T&C's bigger - mine are also so small that it's hard for anyone to read them
I'm still waiting for someone to confirm if my agreement is enforceable or not before I offer an F&F settlement. I really don't want to offer them a high amount if it's not actually enforceable in the first place:grin:.
What % where you thinking of offering as a F&F?
Is your agreement with GE Capital for a Debenhams account? If so I'd be interested to see if they have sent the same T&C's etc
ive now managed to get mine on my thread a bit bigger but as the original is not very clear and the cca should be legible and clear its harder to scan it any better
i managed somehow to make it a bit bigger by using the edit button on photobucket, before you save it,
hope that helps,
well if you can go to my thread CL Finance ive had a superb reply from 42man with a great letter responce back to them so am going to do that and see then what responce i get back
i will defend any court action as i really feel that if a correct and valid cca is available then just supply it dont pussyfoot around and give me the runaround.
ive seen others offer as low as 10% if there is no enforceable cca, but then its a case of how you feel you want to deal with it
remember they wont have paid much for the account in the first place so if you know your rights and depends the amount is , ive seen thread that their solicitors dont even turn up to court half the time anyway, so its how far you want to persue this i guess
let me know what you think and i have had a look at yours and you have far more info than me but then again, its unclear, you might be able to use parts of the letter from man42 to say that what you have had is not legible and therefore its in dispute still until you get very clear and concise information
CL Finance - Debenhams
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Re: CL Finance - Debenhams
Originally Posted by TMAngel
Does it contain all of the prescribed terms it should under the cca. Is it marked application form perchance. 
Re: CL Finance - Debenhams
