Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
hi
earlier this year i had bailiffs calling.
after being on this site, i paid the debt direct to the council MINUS the bailff fees.
SENT email with letter from here stating that the fees were too high but not refusing to pay the fees that they are legally entilted to.
Now I have a bailiff call telling me that I have had letters telling me i owe 88£
i have received nothing no letters whatso ever not even a reply from my email/letter asking for a Breakdown of fees and how much was owed.
I had my car on the drive he said there is a levy from previous debt so he entilted to take the car. nothing has been signed, nothing placed on the car only him taking the number plate down and telling me that if i havent paid by friday he will bring a tow truck and take the car, if it is not on the drive he will call the police and i will be charged with theft!dOESNT this debt now go to the small claims court? Im lost!!!!
the total bill now after 3 changes of the amount FIRST AMOUNT WAS 243.50 THEN SECOND CHANGE WAS 218.50 THEN HE CAME BACK AND THE 3RD IS 232.50
PLEASE can anyone help ASAP
i would be most gratefull i have today gave the car to my daughter and got a recoreded post to DVLA. Would the bailiff place a notice on the car telling me of his intentions as nothing has been put on it as partner drove it away whilst he was at door now it is parked away from home.
Ted - Simple. In answering this I have to presume that you have actually paid the council all that you owe them. If so then that is the liability order taken care of. It is discharged. If you have only paid a proportion of the debt, then that has given the bailiff an excuse to put (undue) pressure on you.
If you have paid the whole amount owing to the council, then ask the bailiff company to provide a copy of the stamped court order that states that they are entitled to whatever fees they are claiming on top of that written into the liability order. They won't be able to as such an order doesn't exist and if there is no court order outstanding against you, the bailiffs can't take anything.
thanks for info,
yes the whole debt was paid direct to the council or that is outstanding is the bailiff fees i have paid nothing as at first 5mths ago he wanted 350.00£ no way was i paying that.
now he says i should have paid the 88£ and now that he has called it has gone up. can he take my car , nothing signed did not enter into the house, nothing put on car to say levied against, should i pay the fees of 24.50?
I think a complaint is in order, once the debt is paid he cannot increase his fees just because he says so - if that is the case then you could owe me £10 for this post, and £10 for each and every proceeding post I make....
Try and send a Private Message to Tomtubby and they should be able to help further.
thank you.
I have been looking through this site and came across one that says "the debt is paid so no fees to pay" is this true except the fees for 1st visit and 2nd which is aroound 43.00£ there was no levy made at the house or walking posession.
I would let them take the car without interference, and then report it stolen.
These parasites need maximum exposure against their unlawful behaviour.
Their actions amount to trying to obtain money by deception.
A criminal act itself.
Call their bluff. i bet the mobsters back down.
.
I Wish you everything you wish yourself.
.
NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.
Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.
Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full
Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full
Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.
Sorry everyone but the regulations covering council tax make it very clear that if the amount of the liability order AND costs is paid to the "authority" BEFORE a levy is undertaken then the liability order is discharged.
In this case the bailiff is trying to say that he has levied.....that needs to be addressed immediately.
It should also be remembered that a poster on CAG had this very same situation and stood his ground when bailiffs came to his home AFTER paying the debt in fall to the council. The bailiff clamped the posters car.....this led to the debtor being arrested.....and getting a criminal record. So PLEASE do be very careful with this advice.
In the case of the above, the poster made a Form 4 complaint about the "phantom visits" and "phantom levy" also on his car. The case was heard in court last week. I am not posting details at this moment in time as there have been some very serious developments with the bailiff co and the bailiff that are ongoing .
I've no doubt that a bailiff clamped a car after a debt had been paid but that doesn't make it either legal or correct. I've also no doubt that the police misread the law on this matter - which as they keep telling us is a civil one. The police should only be concerned with a breach of the peace and nothing else. Unfortunately officers too often become convinced that the bailiff is correctly enforcing a law when he has no court authority at all.
Ted, ask the council to confirm in writing that their debt is paid in full and is therefore discharged and then ask that they provide any evidence of a stamped court order that allows the baliffs to collect a penny.
Ted - I wouldn't pay them anything. Yes they are entitled to ask for the fees you have listed - but they cannot enforce them. The fees are not part of the liability order or any separate court order relating to you.
Of course, you could send half to my beer fund, or £10 to join my parking protection scheme
Of course, you could send half to my beer fund, or £10 to join my parking protection scheme
I've read your website & I think its a brilliant idea. It offers motorists protection from violence by bailiffs who avail themselves to Section 27 of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004.
OTOH you could be pulled for Perverting the Course of Justice. You are safeharbouring a suspect by concealing the address of his vehicle, and thus, obstructing the authorities from locating it and its driver. I'd suggest getting some mega liability insurance.
just got back from the council the fees have now gone up since they rang when i was at their office now its
100.50 for bailiff fee
110.00 van fees
12.00 fpr WPO
tHE council will not listen when i told them they have not sent letters to me, rossendales say they have no record of my emails, I asked rossendales 5 mths ago for a copy of the WPO that i have supposed to have signed by telephone, they said they would send it but got nothing.the levy was made on a trailer that was in 07 and no longer here.
Has anyone got a template letter to complain to the council for not helping?
also a letter to send to ROSSENDALES asking for the info and asking why the fees have changed so many times )theres proof on the notice of removal letter)and on the piece of paper the council gave me after their phone call,
WWOW - Aye, but only when decriminalised parking becomes a criminal offence and the DVLA require a home address and not a contactable one:o and the Data Protection Act is withdrawn and bailiffs act within the law and TEC authorisation is made into a real warrant of execution:grin: and the TEC really is the county court and local authorities stop deceiving those they are meant to serve etc, etc, etc. You could fall asleep reading this or waiting for the pigs to fly past.
In the meantime I'll take comfort in the fact the honest service belongs to us and that those who have absolutely no respect for either the public or the law have hit an impassable legal and moral barrier to the lies, deceit, fraud, and theft that they consider to be normal. Our strength lies in obeying the law.
Ted. But did they confirm that the amount on the liability order had been paid in full? And did they try to produce a copy of a stamped court order that allowed for further charges? If the answer is yes and no in that order, I wouldn't do anything.
I've assumed you have paid the council tax portion of the debt in full & it's just the fees.
Originally Posted by ted45
just got back from the council the fees have now gone up since they rang when i was at their office now its
100.50 for bailiff fee
110.00 van fees
12.00 fpr WPO
Did you get that in writing?
Originally Posted by ted45
Has anyone got a template letter to complain to the council for not helping?
Tweak as required.
Name of Council
Address 1
Address 2
Address 3
Address 4
[DATE]
Dear Sir/Madam
Re: YOUR NAME & ANY REF: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]
I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law rules an authority is liable for its bailiffs and you have made a factual error in your advice.
On [DATE] You have quoted to me that your bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax to be '100.50 for bailiff fee, 110.00 van fees and 12.00 for WPO' and I now understand this contradicts Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. I also understand that defrauding a council tax payer in this way commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 and the council may be criminally liable for assisting an offender in fraudulenty obtaining a money transfers.
To settle this matter early I ask within seven days of this letter being [DATE] that you:
a) Refund me fees paid to your bailiff while acting under your instruction.
b) Pay me reasonable costs in seeking discovery of information and researching the legal background to the case, and:
c) Pay me reasonablke costs for my administrative work and for receiving an over-zealous bailiff seeking to defraud me with bogus fees, and:
d) Pay me 8% Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the daily rate of 0.00022% from the date money became due.
e) Make a written apology.
You have deliberately protracted the matter requiring me to seek legal advice I would not have otherwise needed. For the avoidance of doubt, if you fail to complete the above within seven days being [DATE], I will automatically file a claim in the small claims track without writing further and this may invariably involve further costs.
Your attitude to this matter indicates the council may be engaged in systematically and routinely defrausing council tax payers en-masse. I'll bring this matter to the attention of the Local Government Ombudsman.
This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service on you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 and therefore it is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation. I regret I am unable to discuss this matter by telephone or in person.
Yours Truly
[YOUR NAME]
Make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman and ask they award you compensation against the council for defrauding you with bogus bailiffs fees contradicting Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, and assisting a bailiff in committing offfences under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.
Originally Posted by ted45
also a letter to send to ROSSENDALES asking for the info and asking why the fees have changed so many times
Send the bailiff a Subject access request enclosing a cheque for £10 scan a copy of the cheque showing the cheque number and date.
Name of firm of bailiffs
FAO the Data Controller
Address 1
Address 2
Address 3
Address 4
[DATE]
Dear Sir/Madam
Re: [YOUR NAME + ANY REF]: Data Access Request & opportunity to mitigate incorrect fees
I write pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and enclose payment of £10 the maximum prescribed under the Act and in particular, I request you send me the following eight issues relating to ALL accounts you have for me and anyone at the above address.
a) The name and address of the court that certificated the bailiff who acts in this matter (Bailiff in Charge).
b) The certificate number of the aforementioned bailiff
d) All letters documents emails comments faxes personal opinions memos and other related information which would qualify as information defined under the Act.
c) Written confirmation your bailiffs fees of £[AMOUNT] charged and confirm they truthfully comply with the law.
d) The name and address of the person or body who instructed you and the date of instruction.
e) An itemised breakdown of all the fees charges orders costs and other monies that make up the total obtained by your bailiff being £[AMOUNT]
f) A detail showing how much and on what dates I paid you and how much you have paid on to the creditor.
g) What point of law, namely within Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 do you avail yourself to enable you to charge me bailiffs fees described as 'bailiff fee £100.50' and 'van fee' £110.00.
h) A signed copy of the walking possession agreement your bailiff claimed to hold.
I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days to fulfill this request but I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.
I now give you an opportunity to check whether your bailiff has overcharged me with his fees. If his fees are truthfully compliant with the law, please confirm in writing or refund me within seven days with an explanation why I was overcharged. If I find an irregularity with his fees after seven days I will automatically file an official Form 4 complaint at the bailiff’s certificating court for committing offences under Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your firm’s director(s) may be liable for benefiting from a fraudulent money transfer or proceeds of crime.
Please be advised your bailiff has never been in contact with my goods, or gained peaceful entry to my home.
This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service on you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is now your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation. I regret I am unable to discuss this matter by telephone or in person.
thank you for all the drafts they are very helpfull. have posted yesterday,
the only thing now is what do i do with any replies? what would you expect them to say?
im still not sure about the car so its still on holiday for a while, should he have left notification that he was to take the car?
Do you have any advice on a letter to leave out for him friday as im not wanting to speak to him untill i get replies of how much is really owing
Make your car safe. If a bailiff turns up at your house, hand this to him through an open window. NEVER open the door. NEVER confirm or admit your name and address. Tell him you can’t answer any questions.
The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears from me. However, I have already cleared all debts on the liability order and it has been discharged and no money is due.
This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.
Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police for committing offences under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 206 and you may face a criminal record.
This document was passed to you by hand and a photograph using a mobile phone has been taken of you standing outside reading it.
i have been looking at the regulation 45(2)of the council tax act,, here it states they are to charge REASONABLE FEES how does anyone determine reasonable when the councils dont care and maybe the courts agree on 110.00 van fee for each 10 debtors that day being charged this amount that gives him 1100.00 for hiring a van for the day! please tell me
thank you
im dreading him coming friday as he says i will get arrested for theft if the cars not here he only took the number plate left no paper work either.
bailff calling friday
calling.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by tomtubby
Re: bailff calling friday
and the DVLA require a home address and not a contactable one:o and the Data Protection Act is withdrawn
and 
and local authorities stop deceiving those they are meant to serve
etc, etc, etc. You could fall asleep reading this or waiting for the pigs to fly past.
