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Phoenix have got nothing out of me for years so we have now moved on to the next step apparently.
We got a letter this morning (posted by hand) in the form of a statutory demand from Ely Consultants of Thetford with regard to unpaid council tax, various amounts from the past 4 years.
They are basically asking us to pay up within 21 days or face a bankrupcy petition. the thing is it is addressed to my girlfriend, who owns and lives in the property along with myself and our 23 year old stepson (her son).
My question is this: Who is repsonsible for payment of council tax? The reason I ask is that for all the time I have been here the council tax bill has had both our names on it. this is interesting, because if we are both responsible (a) why is my stepson not named on the council tax bils, and (b) why am I not named on the letter from Ely?
My point is this: If we are all responsible/liable for payment of council tax then the bankrupcy order (threat of) should have named me and my stepson too. If ONLY the owner of the property - my girlfriend - is responsible then why have the council and their bailiffs been harrassing me for all these years for a debt I do not owe? They can't have it both ways.
You WILL have joint and several liability. The council will usually try various enforcement methods and they are known to chase whoever they think will pay the money. With regards to the third person being omitted from the bill, did you actually ever tell the council they lived there too?
It seems then that there is an issue here as to why my g/f is being thratened with bankrupcy but I (and her stepson) are effectively being allowed to get off scott free as it were.
Thanks. I needed to know because I want to give them some harrasment of my own, as I said if I am correctly named on the council tax bill then her stepson should be too.
Don't get me wrong, we're not bothered that he isn't, but they have seemingly been unfairly persecuting me whilst disregarding him completely. I still believe that they should be threatening me with the same as they are threatening her too, I was under the impression that the courts had done away with the "jointly and severally liable" issue some years ago as it was considered unfair to chase one party if they couldn't find the other.
None of it matters too much as the compensation for illegal harrasment I will be seeking from them far exceeds the amount they are chasing us for.
Council tax is based on 2 adults living in a property. If there are more than 2 adults living there then the council tax does not increase, unlike the old poll tax which required payment for every adult that lived in a household. My partner and I are jointly named on our council tax bill and I would imagine that should we default they could come after us both, so it seems strange that as you are jointly named on the bill with your partner that they are only going after her. Is your stepson named on the council tax bill at all?
That's exactly my point, in fact what is even stranger is that I am the first named party on the council tax bill. My stepson isn't named at all.
My g/f owns the property solely, so they are effectively using the "bankrupcy" threat against her because she has the equity. Look at it this way, if they really intend to make anybody bankrupt then the obvious choices would be either myself or my stepson as we have no such assets, in which case they are effectively using similar tactics to those of the bailiffs, twisting the law to coerce her into paying.
The whole thing disgusts me because we are fighting hard to get out of our situation, and it is not a crime to owe money and that includes council tax.
Council tax is based on 2 adults living in a property. If there are more than 2 adults living there then the council tax does not increase, unlike the old poll tax which required payment for every adult that lived in a household. My partner and I are jointly named on our council tax bill and I would imagine that should we default they could come after us both, so it seems strange that as you are jointly named on the bill with your partner that they are only going after her. Is your stepson named on the council tax bill at all?
Would it not be the case of economics.
If a Statutory Demand has been issued and the matter continues to a Petition for Bankruptcy it is more economical to pay one petition fee as opposed to two or three if all had been sent Statutory Demands.
Do a google search for Joint & Several Liability then scroll down to Insolvency.co.uk
Nearest I could find was insolvencyhelpline.co.uk but I've not had the chance to have a look at it yet.
What I did find interesting was this from the Wolverehampton Council website:
Joint and Several Liability
This occurs where the Council holds two or more people liable for paying Council Tax on a property.
* Each person will receive a bill
* Only one amount is payable (not the total of all the bills)
* The Council can ask for payment from any of the persons receiving a bill
* If payment is not made, recovery action is taken against every person who was sent a bill
* Any of the people sent a bill can be held liable for the whole debt
This is particularly interesting because we have NEVER received seperate bills; should we have by law? Again the answer to this is important; because I deal with all the bills my g/f has never even seen a council tax bill!
From 1 April 2006
The procedure will be changing for bills issued for the financial year starting 1 April 2006. Where there are currently two people jointly and severally liable for paying Council Tax on a property:
* One bill will be issued showing the names of both people who are jointly liable
* The Council can ask for payment from either of the persons named on the bill
* If payment is not made, separate reminders and summonses will be issued to each person named on the bill
* Either of the people named on the bill can be held liable for the whole debt
If there are more than two people in a property who are held responsible for paying the Council Tax, they will continue to receive separate bills.
We have ALWAYS received all bills, reminders, summonses etc. in both our names, not just since April 2006. So if this is law, our local council are in breach of it.
I've read with interest the thread and found it fairly useful, as it relates to my own situation in some part.
I am the leasholder on a 2 bed property where I rent out the second room to a 'sub-tenant'. When he moved in we agreed he should register and pay his share of Council Tax directly, which he did and paid in installments. However, when he moved out, the he contacted the Council for some reason, not sure, and they either informed him or he he had found an intersting loophole in the liability to pay under the 1992 Housing Act under section 6. Bear in mind this gent in not originally from the uK and I had to show him how to pay CT in the first place, I doubt whether he is that aware of the 1992 Act and his rights.
In any avent, the Council repaid his entire payments over 16 months and added to my account without informing me.
When some months later I noticed the outstanding balance from the previous year, which had been fully paid, I attemopted to contact the Council. eventually a Senior manager responded and tells me I am liable for all his payment??
As you can imagine, I feel the council has been negligent in a number of areas.
I would dearly like to find a legal counsel to discuss and establish their negligence and consider suing them for the amount.
My understanding is that, unless the sub-tenant had a separate dwelling area which was clearly defined, with it's own address (eg Flat 2, 123 High Street etc) the owner or tenant is responsible for paying the CT and including the sub-tenants part in their rent.
Council Tax is a very hard one to get around even if they have made mistakes. However, in this instance, I reckon that you may have to come to an agreement to repay, but try to negotiate a reasonable timeframe using the fact that they did not notify you that they were refunding the other person and you would be liable.
However, try posting this in the relevant section and see if anyone else can give you something more positive. It may be that more info will offer up a different approach.
Who is responsible for council tax payments?
been harrassing me for all these years for a debt I do not owe? They can't have it both ways.
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Originally Posted by Rob S
