Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Some background info first:
I live in a small block of 16 flats, set back from the road. There is a circular drive, surrounding a green lawn, with parking for residents cars.
The parking is "managed" by a PPC called BGS Services (BGS Services - Car Park Management & Maintenance), engaged by the leaseholders, Freshwater Property Management (yes, yes, I know how bad they are!), who until recently had 6 signs posted all over the front of the building warning of the "penalties" blah blah. The residents are issued with one parking permit, which we have to display at all times, and one visitor's permit for guests.
Naturally, BGS don't tell you you need these permits when you move in, and wait until they've issued you with your first ticket(s) before informing you that you should have had one. Who do you get them from? BGS of course! We were caught out when we first moved in a few months ago, and some new people have just been caught out too, as have a few visitors.
Although there are 16 flats, there is not enough room for 16 cars; depending on the size of people's cars, they is maybe enough room for between 8-10 cars to park here at any one time. This means that for residents, parking is on a first-come, first served basis, and the rest have to park in the surrounding streets (where it is free i.e. no restrictions at all).
There is actually no need for any parking restrictions or "management" of this site at all, as no-one but residents and their guests ever park here. It's not like we're plagued by shoppers to the nearby town or anything... it's a small, quiet side road, that's a dead end, and nobody but residents or delivery vehicles ever drives down here. Given that the whole idea of parking restrictions is supposed to benefit the residents (at least, you would think so), to prevent non-residents from taking the residents places, it seems bizarre in the extreme that BGS seem to target only the people who actually live here, for the apparent "crime" of parking in front of their own homes!
Most tickets appear to be given out for the "crime" of not displaying a valid permit, and those most likely to be caught are relatives and friends of residents, although nearly all the residents have been caught out themselves at least once too. There is a space on the pcn for the issuing officer to write in the alleged contravention: lately, these have been getting odder. One recent one was for "parking too close to the bins", another for "wheels on the grass" etc. There is no mention on the warning signs that these specific activities are against any of BGS's made-up rules, and they seem to be issuing tickets on a "carpet-bombing" approach.
OK, now to latest developments:
Thanks to this fantastic site, and recent publicity on BBC's "Watchdog", most of the recent PCNs issued have been challenged. There doesn't seem to be any particular outcome as yet, just the odd threatening letters. But BGS are clearly worried they're losing one little cash-cow, and they seem to have changed tack. Several weeks ago, the signs disappeared from the buildings, and we have been without any warning signs whatsoever. Some tickets have still been issued, but with no warning signs on display, I'm sure they won't be a problem.
However, this morning, two enormous guys, shaved heads, tattoos etc, turned up, and affixed 3 new signs to the building. Apparently, we are now to be clamped and towed away for parking on our own driveway! The charge for having the clamp removed is to be £120, on top of the £200 for the "contravention".
Now, while it's easy to write off a few letters and refuse to pay, this ups the ante somewhat. Most residents here are elderly, and don't relish the prospect of arguing with intimidating thugs (and believe me, if you'd seen the guys who turned up this morning, "thugs" is too mild a term! "Shaved gorillas" would be more appropriate!) who've just clamped their car.
Can anyone advise us as to what to do if we get clamped? Clearly, these bastards aren't giving up without a fight, and we are not going to get our cars back without paying. But we too are determined not to give in: it's simply outrageous that they should be allowed to get away with this kind of thing.
Any advice welcome: we'd really like to forestall this in some way before anyone gets clamped, if we can.
What if the signs were to "mysteriously disappear" one night?
No idea. Assume it's with Freshwater: half the flats are privately owned, the others are owned by Freshwater and rented out. Freshwater owns the lease to the whole site.
None whatsoever. Nothing mentioned in lease at all.
Just had another look at the new signs they've put up...
Very odd... they're saying that further charges will be issued if the vehicle isn't removed within two hours of the first pcn being applied. Further down they say that the vehicle will be immobilized at the first breach of the contract... so if it's clamped, how the hell are you supposed to be able to remove it? And why should we have to move our own vehicles from our own homes anyway?
Is there any way to prevent these people from clamping and towing away?
BGS are not listed on the SIA website, or at least I couldn't see them there. I tried ringing SIA, but merely got the "All our operators are busy" message, and after 20 mins gave up holding....
Haven't contacted Freshwater yet... bit reluctant to, as I don't want to be seen as too much of a trouble-stirrer. They may decide not to renew our lease...
BGS are not listed on the SIA website, or at least I couldn't see them there. I tried ringing SIA, but merely got the "All our operators are busy" message, and after 20 mins gave up holding....
BGS as a company won't necessarily be licensed. The SIA license individuals in two categories non-frontline staff, such as owners/directors/principals, and frontline - those who actually immobilise and tow away vehicles.
Forewarned is forearmed. Have a read of the clamping guide in the stickies. I've detailed your rights and some remedies in that. Zamzara has added a post to it that has relevance to your situation.
I would check your lease agreement. If you the agreement makes no mention of permits in it then the rest is so much bumf. You can deny a contract exists and therefore the need for a permit is nil. You should be able to sue the PPC and the managment company.
If you fancy a more punitive approach then you could try the remedy in this story which makes me laugh everytime I read it. Talk about hoist on your own petard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, read the clamping guide. Unfortunately, I can see several residents here just paying up to get their car back, rather than present a united front, which is what we really need.
The lease makes no mention of any parking restrictions whatsoever. The "contract" is on the signs displayed on the building.
On what grounds would I sue the PPC/management company?
What if those signs were to mysteriously disappear overnight? Sure, they'd be back in a few days time, but they could always mysteriously disappear again...?
What if those signs were to mysteriously disappear overnight? Sure, they'd be back in a few days time, but they could always mysteriously disappear again...?
If your that suspicious, do as suggested earlier and take photographs making sure that they are shown against the backdrop of the houses or something that proves where they are.
You really need to talk to the other tenants and get them on your side, write to your paper if possible.
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Yeah, read the clamping guide. Unfortunately, I can see several residents here just paying up to get their car back, rather than present a united front, which is what we really need.
The lease makes no mention of any parking restrictions whatsoever. The "contract" is on the signs displayed on the building.
On what grounds would I sue the PPC/management company?
What if those signs were to mysteriously disappear overnight? Sure, they'd be back in a few days time, but they could always mysteriously disappear again...?
You could sue for loss of enjoyment of your property plus the actual costs of getting your vehicle declamped plus the cost of renting a vehicle while yours can't be used.
If the signs were to mysteriously disappear then you could hardly satisfy one of the key peices of the Anker case which was that if you park in defiance of a sign you can expect to be clamped. Be warned that if you were to partake in such an activity then you could be done for theft/criminal damage assuming they could catch you doing it. ;-)
OK what to do. I would write to the Management company who employ the clampers. I would inform them that you did not sign up to any permit scheme as a condition of your lease and therefore you will not be complying with their scheme. Warn them that if you are clamped subsequent to them receiving this letter that you will immediately commence actions to recover damages from them and their agent. Send it recorded delivery and see how they respond.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be warned that if you were to partake in such an activity then you could be done for theft/criminal damage assuming they could catch you doing it. ;-)
I wonder to whom the wall belongs to which these signs are attached?
OK what to do. I would write to the Management company who employ the clampers. I would inform them that you did not sign up to any permit scheme as a condition of your lease and therefore you will not be complying with their scheme. Warn them that if you are clamped subsequent to them receiving this letter that you will immediately commence actions to recover damages from them and their agent. Send it recorded delivery and see how they respond.
To quote a very old catchphrase. "That's the way to do it"
Send said letter via a signed for delivery service to provide proof that it has arrived.
OK, thanks for all your advice.
I keep trying to call the SIA, but cannot get through, just automated response.
I'm currently drafting a letter to send to all the residents, to see if we can collectively organize a revolt of some kind.
As I said previously, I don't want my landlord to see me as a troublemaker, and decide not to renew my lease when it's up. Therefore, any action will be better if it comes from all the residents, rather than just one or two.
By the way, another pcn was issued today to another resident because two of their wheels are on the grass. If they hadn't parked slightly on the grass, no other vehicle would have been able to pass. There are no signs anywhere telling us NOT to park on the grass!
it may be that the management agent/whatever is making money out of each ticket. if its not in the lease how did the agreement with the PPC become active ?
ask for this info - ask to see the contract with the PPC. better yet get a copy
Just a quick update to this thread: all of the residents here were informed (by me ) of their rights regarding PPC's, and directed to this site for further information. As a result, no further "invoices" from BGS were paid by anyone. Finally, a few months ago, the parking signs were removed completely. Nothing further was heard, and no information was sent to us, by either the PPC or the Site Management Co. Last month, a new resident moved into one of the flats, and asked the Site management people about the parking permits the other residents had, and where she could get one. She was told that they were no longer required, as BGS no longer patrol the property, and are no longer employed by the Site Management Co. Result!! We can now all park in front of our own homes without fear of hassle.
Just a quick update to this thread: all of the residents here were informed (by me ) of their rights regarding PPC's, and directed to this site for further information. As a result, no further "invoices" from BGS were paid by anyone. Finally, a few months ago, the parking signs were removed completely. Nothing further was heard, and no information was sent to us, by either the PPC or the Site Management Co. Last month, a new resident moved into one of the flats, and asked the Site management people about the parking permits the other residents had, and where she could get one. She was told that they were no longer required, as BGS no longer patrol the property, and are no longer employed by the Site Management Co. Result!! We can now all park in front of our own homes without fear of hassle.
Now that is what you call a heartwarming story - well done.
Trading Standards wants your help
Dubious website businesses Conterfeit alcohol and cigarettes Illegal sales of alcohol, tobacco, knives & fireworks to children Cowboy builders or tradesmen Car clockers Counterfeiters Aggressive selling
Never phone or accept phonecalls from debt collection companies.
If you don't believe you can win, there is no point in getting out of bed.
_________________________ ________________ _________________________ ___________________
Alustrum, Well done. It goes to show what can be done. And that the setup was bogus from the word go. If they could have enforced they would have instead they got shown the door as they could make no money. May I suggest you write it up in a bit more detail and see if we can get in made a sticky in success stories or as a standalone sticky.
see if we can get in made a sticky in success stories or as a standalone sticky
Or on a giant billboard in the middle of Piccadilly Circus
Trading Standards wants your help
Dubious website businesses Conterfeit alcohol and cigarettes Illegal sales of alcohol, tobacco, knives & fireworks to children Cowboy builders or tradesmen Car clockers Counterfeiters Aggressive selling
Never phone or accept phonecalls from debt collection companies.
If you don't believe you can win, there is no point in getting out of bed.
_________________________ ________________ _________________________ ___________________
PPC ups the ante
for the issuing officer to write in the alleged contravention: lately, these have been getting odder. One recent one was for "parking too close to the bins", another for "wheels on the grass" etc. There is no mention on the warning signs that these specific activities are against any of BGS's made-up rules, and they seem to be issuing tickets on a "carpet-bombing" approach.
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Originally Posted by Alastrum
