In January, 2008 I cancelled a direct debit with RBS, since then the creditor has attempted to take the direct debit three times and in the process 'reinstated' the direct debit. This has led to x3 charges of £50 from the creditor and x3 charges from the bank of £39.00

It was my understanding that under the Direct Debit Guarantee scheme, that this couldn't happen. I spoke with the bank and they said according to their system it was cancelled in January but I was still being charged! I asked them to produce a new direct debit form with my signature on - obviously they couldn't and so hung up on me.

The second phonecall resulted in one £39.00 charge being refunded and we were told in future we had to watch and see if a cancelled DD was about to hit the account and told to ring the branch if it was approaching. So it would seem things have changed - we now have to do the banks work and the DD guarantee has no validity whatsoever.

Has anyone else had this experience with RBS or the DD scheme?

Many thanks.

The Direct Debit Guarantee is in place to protect the consumer, and since the banks have moved to an automated DD system it has caused all sorts of problems for people.

As you may know, when the DD scheme began, you had to complete a mandate which was then sent to the bank, and the bank authorised it and established the direct debit on your behalf.

But the banks and businesses said it was taking to long, and costing to much money in processing these mandates.

Therefore BACS agreed to new changes, and in my opinion was the worst thing that could happen as it removes all protection to the consumer/bank account holder.

The new system allows DD 'Originators' to set up a direct debit on the BACSTel without having any mandate, once it is created on the BACSTel, the direct debit is established (takes 24 hours). All the originator needs is the sortcode and account number, does not need the account name (BIG Security Flaw!). Basically allowing ANYONE to setup a direct debit with an originator for payment, the only account checking that is carried out is by BACS to ensure the account number is genuine (This is calculated by an algorithm to the sort code, not rocket science to work out either). This year the famous or not so famous Jeremy Clarkson was the victim of a DD Fraud, someone setup payments to his bank account number, without his knowledge.

The Direct Debit Guarantee is the only protection against this, and most banks don't follow the rules as should do, soon as you inform your bank you wish to claim a Direct Debit Indemnity, the bank is supposed to refund the money back into your account, and take the issue up with the originator, most banks will tell you to contact the originator though.

I recently helped someone out in similar circumstances to yourself, in that a water company was taking money from a friends account by DD, he wrote and told them not to take any future direct debits, also informed the bank and cancelled the instruction, he received a letter from the water company, stating it was going to restablish the direct debit if he liked it or not, as that was the only way to pay them, and a DD was setup at the bank without his consent. This went on for months (about 10 month).

No sooner as he cancelled it, the water company would reinstate it, the bank told him nothing he can do.

NOW.... all banks allow you to request whats called a "DD ZERO BLOCK" against direct debits, this blocks ANY new direct debits from being established on your account UNLESS a signed instruction is received at the banks processing centre. It is free to request this, BACS are in duscussions with the BBA about "DD ZERO BLOCK" as BACS are unhappy about it, because the originators are complaining to them, since the originators have paid money to be able to fully automat the DD Setup process, this has been kept quiet, the media know about it, but aren't telling people for some reason or another.

In your case, you have every right to get any charges back from your bank that you have incurred because of the direct debit, just claim against the Direct Debit Indemnity scheme, and don't let the bank tell you it doesn't apply, as every bank who allows direct debits from its accounts must sign up to and agree to the scheme.

Sorry for the long winded post, but hopefully it explains alittle for you.

Hi Hobbie,

Thank you for clarifying this for me unlike the bank. It is somewhat worrying though that even with the ''DD ZERO BLOCK' this only applies to new direct debits. So if I understand this correctly any previous cancelled DD's could be reinstated, at any time and without prior notice! I find that very alarming and yet again the consumers protection seems to be eroding in favour of originatos/creditors.

As you point out there are some serious security loopholes in this system and it won't be long before someone exploits those weaknesses.

I am somewhat surprised that their is no requirement for the banks to inform their customers of these changes and their diminishing rights under this system.

Once again thank you for the clarification and insight.

archieL,

The DD ZERO BLOCK prevents any new Direct Debits been established on your account, this also includes any previous cancelled instructions, an originator wishing to re-establish a direct debit is treated as a new instruction, so therefore the bank would refuse an automated DD Setup, and require the originator to supply a signed paper mandate instruction.

Phil C

I cancelled a direct debit for Scottish Power when I changed supplier. We are in dispute with them as to what is owed, because they have not incresed our payments enough to meet the price increases since our capped perion ended. They offered to reduce the bill by £20 and send us an ammended bill. We now find out that whilst this negotiation was going on, they set up another DD withour our permission and took the original amount. I have claimed this back in DD indemnity. I read about DD ZERO BLOCK on your site, and phoned my bank (Abbey) to apply the ZERO BLOCK. They have told me they can't do this, but will return any further payments taken from my account with DD's set up in this way. Is there anything further that I can do to apply the ZERO BLOCK.

....and phoned my bank (Abbey) to apply the ZERO BLOCK. They have told me they can't do this, but will return any further payments taken from my account with DD's set up in this way. Is there anything further that I can do to apply the ZERO BLOCK.

Phil,

From what you have explained, Abbey have applied this to your account, if the bank have confirmed that "but will return any further payments taken from my account with DDs set up in this way".

All banks that are members of the Direct Debit Scheme have this option to block DD's being established without a paper mandate.

Remember though, If customers choose to do this, it is going to cost the banks alot of money, as it will need to process each mandate manually, just what the banks are trying to move away from. Don't let the bank tell you otherwise, it is your money, and the bank have a responsibility to ensure your money is kept safe.

Banks that I can confirm will set up a DD ZERO BLOCK if the request is received in writing at the customers request are Barclays, Lloyds TSB, HSBC, NatWest and Nationwide.

Hi Hobbie

No they haven't put a DD ZERO BLOCK on our account, they said they can't. They only said that if any more are set up they will refund the money, which they have to do under the DD indemnity, wjich means I have to check the account on a regular basis. From what I have read on the forums, I am now concerned that Scottish Power will pass the debt on to a debt collection agency instead. I have queried the bill, and they sent me details of all charges and meter readings since I went with them. and I have worked the figures out. Consumptions are slightly down on both gas and electric since the capped period ended in Dec2006. Gas usage during capped period was 36.63 units per month at a price of £18.469 after capped period gas usage was 36.26 units per month at a price of £30.67.

electric usage during the capped period 391.96 units per month at a price of £23.39 After the capped period 386.8 units per month at a price of £31.65. I am in correspondence with them asking where the dual fuel bonus of £15 per fuel switched per year was, and they have said that it was knocked off before charges, so I have asked for, and am awaiting detailsin the post. I know prices have gone up, but are these increases realistic ?

Hi Hobbie,

I have spoken with RBS local branch and they seem clueless about this. Apparently their 'service centre' say the computer says NO. They said that we would need to take this up with the/any originator. I will however stick a letter into them and see how it goes.

Do you have any links that actually define these regulations/rules?

Cheers,

archieL,

I do have copies of the text, but not at home with me.

Take alook at these following links though, ready carefully, looking at the bigger picture of what it is saying.

Direct Debit - your rights=

APACS - Direct Debit

APACS - BACS

The last one inparticular.

...following an instruction from you to make such a payment when the organisation requests it.

If you do not give an instruction to the bank to establish the direct debit in the first place, the bank has no right in establishing a direct debit.

And like wise, you give the bank and instruction NEVER to establish a direct debit without your prior written consent (Paper DD Mandate) then no instruction exists.

Also search those two sites, I'm pretty sure it will have further information on the block.