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Hi there - sorry about the slightly melodramatic thread title but i've had an experience with a bought car that has really shaken me up - hence why I am posting this at 4 in the morning... I can't sleep! I am hoping you clever people can advise me on what course of action to take. Thanks in advance if you can!
Here's my story in a nutshell...
In March I bought a car, an L reg Chrysler PT Cruiser, registered December year 2004 with 38000 on the clock, from Ian Farrell Motor Company in Birmingham, for £5482. I had the car Vehicle checked with Auto Trader and the car came back with no issues. The car was supposedly fully serviced and MOT'd after i'd purchased it, and I had to wait approximately 4 days for it. I live in Northampton and found the vehicle on Auto Trader and travelled the 60 miles back and forth sorting the car out for purchase. The car was covered by a full parts etc warranty, for 6 months, the warranty being one offered through their own garage service. There were a number of issues with the vehicle after purchase, namely tyres that were going flat, a core air temperature sensor that failed and two chips on the windscreen that I didn't notice on road testing the vehicle, that I believe may have been in an area of the windscreen that would have caused the car to fail it's MOT. I mention these issues because I believe they are relevant in that I believe the MOT the car received was un-satisfactory. THe problem I had was that the garage was 60 miles away and I had no way to get the car back and forth to the garage to get 'minor' issues with it sorted so was resolved to having to sort them out at my own cost.
After approximately 10 weeks after purchase, and after the date of the MOT, I had done just 800 mlles, some 80 miles a week. Not a lot of mileage i'm sure you will agree. I have had a rear tyre replaced as it was faulty, and a rear tyre re-attached as it was fitted with a dirty rim and therefore going flat in that time, as well as having the windscreen chips repaired on my insurance.
Yesterday at 17:15, as I was entering a roundabout to enter onto the A45 dual carriageway, there was a loud crack and the car skidded out of control with me having no control over the car, along with much smoke and smell of burning rubber. I instantly thought a tyre had blown. After the car came to a halt I tried to slowly drive the car over to a safer spot but it would not move. I was in a very dangerous area blocking a major road but couldn't move. When I got out of the vehicle I could see my drivers side front wheel had come off of it's mounting and was a completely different angle to the other correctly mounted wheel. The Drive shaft was pulled out of skew and obviously something had happened to the gear box as there was gear box fluid all over the car. The tyres were obviously damaged and there was damage the the inner wing of the car.
When the Breakdown vehicle eventually attended the car, he informed me that the car had no pin attaching the wheel to the ball joint and was essentially a death trap, and that had I been going 70mph on the dual carriageway I was about to enter I probably would have lost control of the car to such an extent that I would almost certainly have died.
I rang the garage and they were fairly blase about it saying 'bring it in we'll fix the vehicle' and weren't even perturbed enough to get anyone to the garage to receive the vehicle from the breakdown service after hours telling me to tow it in the morning, despite my telling them that this was impossible.
Now, for me, for this to have happened to a car I bought from a supposedly legitimate garage, when this is a specific MOT test point, 800 miles after buying a car is completely unacceptable. I have an 8 year old daughter and a 6 month year old daughter, as well as a wife, that I regularly drive on the A45 etc, if this had happened at that speed, with them in the car, we would all conceiveably have died.
The garage, on the phone, offered no apology.
What I would like someone to tell me, if they possibly could, what I should do now? I feel like I do not want the car back as it is un-safe. I do not trust the garage to carry out work and tests to a safe standard. I believe that the MOT they did to the car was un-satisfactory. What can I do? The car is at the garage in Birmingham (it was eventually lifted and towed there by the RAC) and the garage have said they will start work on it in the morning but I believe I may have a case to take this further.
I am so angry, and upset... I do not think I will ever feel safe in the car, and my wife has said that she will not enter it or put our kids in it. I am not a well off person this is the first 'decent' car I have been able to afford, and was able to purchase it because of an inheritance of a relative passing away.
What now?
What recourse do I have?
Can I ask for my money back? Should i stop them working on it and have it inspected? Can I have their MOT license 'inspected'? I need to stop them working on it if so I imagine, god knows how I am going to arrange anything happening to the car when it is in Birmingham and I am in Northampton. I had to agree to that because I only had the opportunity to get it to one destination with the RAC, and I was pretty shaken up at the time and could only think about getting it to the garage which covered it's warranty.
The risk of a 'bent' MoT has been greatly reduced since the computerisation began, so go here first and check any advice that the center that did the MoT entered.
This will show anything that could not be failed but required looking at.
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I think from what you say it's clear that you have a case against the dealer who supplied the vehicle & will almost certainly be in your right to cancel your agreement, refuse to accept it & have your money returned ..... So after stating that & unless you find direct evidence of a dodgy MOT, which I doubt you will as they are now recorded, in what way would you like to punish the dealer for his irresponsible & uncaring behaviour?
Recind the contract & ask for a refund (he will argue that he's repairing it)
Claim against those you paid to inspect it & didn't spot the fault but who will argue that the faulty item is not part of the inspection
In other words you have a number of choices & you need to ask 'do I want to continue doing business with this garage' if not the above applies
Get the MoT details first so that you can arm yourself with as much ammunition as possible to make it easier.
Will take two minutes and is free.
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Write to them (special delivery) & tell them what you want to do & if it's on HP send a copy to the loan company. Give them 10-14 days to respond then wait & see what happens
That's my suggestion as should this litigate the court will want to see that you have acted reasonably by giving them enough time to consider their response
JonCris. Why is it clear that the OP has a case against the dealer?
"no pin attaching the wheel to the ball joint"
Gives us all no clue as to what was actually wrong with the car before whatever failed, failed. There could be 101 causes, man made and accidental and 1 post is not enough to hang the dealer just yet.
A proper diagnosis and report is needed. Nobody should jump to any conclusions.
What ball joint? If it is the joint at the end of the track rod, this is usually held by a 'nyloc' nut so no pin is employed. If it is the ball joint at the bottom suspension, then again some have castellated nuts and some have nyloc. This is a US car so the RAC man may not have been familiar with the type of fixing used by a foreign company and it may not employ split pins.
With the time that has passed, I think you will find that your not within the realms of 'for a short period' and are out of time for automatic rejection.
The car should have had an independent inspection before repairs were authorised and I fear that it may be too late to change the outcome of the dealer getting it repaired which are probably already underway.
With the dealer giving his own 6 months parts and labour warranty and not selling one of those useless insurance warranties, I would feel confident that he wouldn't knowingly sell a vehicle with a fault.
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Dubious website businesses Conterfeit alcohol and cigarettes Illegal sales of alcohol, tobacco, knives & fireworks to children Cowboy builders or tradesmen Car clockers Counterfeiters Aggressive selling
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_________________________ ________________ _________________________ ___________________
JonCris. Why is it clear that the OP has a case against the dealer?
"no pin attaching the wheel to the ball joint"
Gives us all no clue as to what was actually wrong with the car before whatever failed, failed. There could be 101 causes, man made and accidental and 1 post is not enough to hang the dealer just yet.
A proper diagnosis and report is needed. Nobody should jump to any conclusions.
Hammy
Simple hammy because it fell apart after only a few weeks & I very much doubt that driving it would cause a split pin to fall out. In fact I would go so far as to say it's impossible for a correctly fitted & non-corroded split pin to fall out
That coupled with all the other faults as described by the OP lead me to think the car wasn't fit for purpose when it was sold
I agree with jonchris on this one. I am not a mechanic but from spending mcuh of my youth around a local garage, I know that whenever and wherever a splt pin is used on a vehicle, one leg of the pin is bent back so that it cannot work itself loose.
If it was a 20 year old 'heap of scrap' that was sold as seen then you might expect somthing like this to happen but not a four year old car. I can understand not wanting the car anymore, you can't help wodering what's going to happen next.
HALIFAX: 13/01/07 Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter (marked as rec'd 16/01)
Paid in full in March 07
I spoke to the garage on saturday (you could call it more of an argument really) and they informed me that they had replaced the front two wishbones at their cost in the MOT when I bought it and that they'd replaced the 'pin' and ball joint then. Well, to my mind that means that that work wasn't carried out correctly if 800 miles later a wheel comes off. What do you think?
In that case write to them confirming the conversation without making accusations at this stage.
It's pretty obvious, even to a lay person, that they didn't do the job properly. They either didn't refit a pin or if they did it wasn't made secure.
The problem with many garages is that the mechanics are under pressure to complete the work & very often the person that starts the job isn't always the one that finishes it resulting in things being overlooked
Reason(s) for refusal to issue Certificate
Nearside Front Lower rearward suspension arm rubber bush bonding deteriorated resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.3)
Offside Front Lower rearward suspension arm rubber bush bonding deteriorated resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.3)
Nearside & offside front brake juddering severely (3.7.A.2b)
Nearside Rear 205/55/16 tyre tread depth below requirements of 1.6mm (4.1.D.1)
Here is the subsequent MOT that then passed:
Advisory Notice issued
Small stone chip in zone A of front windscreen
Picture becoming any clearer? (I don't really understand any of this stuff?!)
Having just read the thread again I think it's fortunate that their workmanship appears to have caused this problem because it does indicate that the fault was not as a result of hidden previous abuse or poor maintenance ................ twisted I know but it does have a logic don't you think ..................... sort of "better the devil you do know rather than the devil you don't"
I don't really think you need to concern yourself with the MOT failure & unless you admit to crawling under the vehicle a dismantling a part of it then removing the pin there is no other way it could have been dislodged
The simple facts are that a split pin either wasn't fitted or if it was it wasn't fitted properly. The fact that they admit undertaking the work does not exonerate them from liability quite the opposite as it demonstrates that their work was shoddy
Yes there is "res ipsa loquator". The evidence speaks for itself in that it fell apart only 8 weeks after delivery as a direct result of a part, the pin, either not being fitted or not being fitted properly. Other than that there is no other way the pin could have failed.
The whole reason that pins are fitted it precisely to stop the sort of failure you suffered. A split pin although small, cheap & uncomplicated is a very necessary part of a vehicles construction. It's designed to stop vital parts either falling off or coming apart by retaining the securing nut/bracket in place
Car nearly killed me... please help me!
vehicle eventually attended the car, he informed me that the car had no pin attaching the wheel to the ball joint and was essentially a death trap, and that had I been going 70mph on the dual carriageway I was about to enter I probably would have lost control of the car to such an extent that I would almost certainly have died.
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Originally Posted by Hammy1962
