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I am trying to deal with MBNA on behalf of an elderly relative who foolishly took out a loan with this outfit sometime in the 1990s, rolling over the loan several times until 2006, and had a faultless repayment record until entering a care home last Christmas when he had to stop repayment in order to make payments to the home. He has no assets. The house he lived in previously is owned by his wife (also in a care home). A relative (over 60) lives in this house and has power of attorney for the wife. The husband has not granted power of attorney to anyone, is unable to use a phone or write easily but is being bombarded with letters from various people at MBNA.
He has signed a letter (from MBNA) authorising them to deal with me but they will not answer my letters (sent recorded delivery) in which I have repeatedly asked them not to write to him but to me, as their letters are affecting his health (he is recovering from a stroke). I have reported MBNA’s conduct to trading standards but do not expect any real help from that quarter.
I have told MBNA my relative has no assets (they do not appear to have checked his credentials at the time of making the current loan in 2006) and that I may be able to come to an arrangement with them on his behalf, but I need to know the original sum borrowed in the 1990s and the total repaid to date, my intention being (although I am now having second thoughts) of offering to make up the difference if there is one (which I rather doubt).
My concerns are:
1) to stop them writing to him
2) discovering if there is any way they could eventually obtain a charging order on his home (at present he is classed as a temporary resident at the care home by social services) by dint of any matrimonial legislation
3) how a bailiff would serve papers on him in a care home
My advice would be to send them a Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA-74) s77-79 Request to obtain a True Copy of the Executed Agreement. If it was a Loan, then the applicable Section is 77.
The CCA-74 is here for your reference (just click the Section Numbers to read the full Laws):
Send the Letter via Special Delivery. This is Tracked, and more reliable than Recorded.
They have 12 Working Days to respond. After that, they will be in Default of the Request, and the alleged Account will then be in Dispute. Stop payments at that stage.
I would then write to tell them that, again, Special Delivery.
After that, they cannot enforce the Debt until such time as they find an enforceable Agreement. They have 30 Calendar Days to do that, after which they are in Criminal Default. Debt can only then be Enforced via a Court, and they would need an Agreement as well!
You may need to either get your Relative to Sign the Letter, or if he has already given you his Authority to Communicate with the MBNA, then that may be OK. Perhaps someone else can advise there.
There are some examples of a Suitable CCA request, but if you get stuck, just ask and someone will post one here or add a Link.
I would also send them a 2nd Letter, a Subject access request (SAR) under the Data Protection Act 1998.
You must send them £10 for that. They have 40 Calendar Days to respond.
The reason for the SAR is that you may find problems with some of the earlier Loans. If all connected, your Relative may well have a substantial claim for redress if the earlier Loans were flawed.
Look especially for Payment Protection Insurance. Was that mis-sold, how were the earlier Loans wrapped up into the later Loans. Did they calculate a fair Pay-Off if one Loan was rolled into the next.
Also, check Signatures, as the MBNA had a habit of pre-signing Loan Agreements. There are issues then about Cancellation Rights, which could potentially make the Debt unenforceable.
Lots to find out, but start with the CCA Request and the SAR.
Thanks for that, Fred. I have just been reading through your thread. Astonishing! This company is clearly the absolute pits. I cannot understand why the regulators have not put them out of business. There are a number of things they appear to be doing mentioned in the many threads I've been reading that I would have thought are really matters for the police IMHO. And who regulates the regulators?
Thanks for that, Fred. I have just been reading through your thread. Astonishing! This company is clearly the absolute pits. I cannot understand why the regulators have not put them out of business. There are a number of things they appear to be doing mentioned in the many threads I've been reading that I would have thought are really matters for the police IMHO. And who regulates the regulators?
Well you've hit the nail on the head there Apoplectic. Personally, I've found Trading Standards and the Information Commissioners' Office to be about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. The only people who seem to have any clout are the OFT and essentially we're all still waiting to find out if they really mean business. The rest are toothless tigers in my opinion.
I was at Liverpool airport a couple of weekends ago and was approached by a young lady offering me an MBNA card - let's just say I bet she wishes she hadn't
Steven
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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
This is typical MBNA - they really are a bunch of [edit].
That's the polite version. These people may as well be the [edit], the more you read, and the more you come into contact with them, the nastier the taste they'll leave in your mouth.
But at least you are starting to see what you are up against.
I neglected to mention that you must KEEP ALL OF THEIR ENVELOPES. These people will also back-date Letters to try and give the impression that they complied within a Legal Request Deadline.
I have several Letters where they have blasted themselves in both feet by Franking a Letter way past the Deadline, and yet with a Letter Date way before the Deadline. The Dated Franking Mark also shows their Franking Licence.
I'm also busy investigating what those orange Barcodes are on many Letters. I'm hoping the longer upper one contains a Date. The lower shorter one, I'm fairly sure, is the Delivery Postcode. If/when I work out what Barcode they are using (it is not RM4SCC sadly, the one Royal Mail allow Bulk Customers to use), I should be able to let people know if these Barcodes can tell us anything.
If it contains a Date, I may then have many more provable examples of bankers being creative and back-dating Letters. Well, I probably can't prove it, but I can demonstrate they Posted very, very, very late, and let a Judge work out why. Plus many examples of routine or threatening Letters where they did not back-date, and were very, very, very prompt when sending.
Threat Letters ALL go out on time.
Deadline Letters ALL seem to go out very, very, very, late.
Funny that.
Finally, and then I'll leave you alone...
...Don't ever speak to them. Ever. Keep it in Writing at all times.
I was at Liverpool airport a couple of weekends ago and was approached by a young lady offering me an MBNA card - let's just say I bet she wishes she hadn't
Typical Scouser. I bet that's a part-time job in between ram raiding. Either way, the result's the same.
Ah, sorry, I shall have to force myself to be less potentially rude about these fine upstanding bankers!
Cheers,
BRW
Thanks, just being careful
Steven
Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here
Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here
Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
Hi Guys. Don't mind the banter, and thanx for your help so far. I am now confident I can deal with the immediate problem but I really really do need some hard info on the question of the charging order possibility on a house the debtor does not own but his wife does.
PS The OFT does not fill me with confidence (Northern Rock) (?MBNA next?) because of its inept handling of the Minorco/ Hanson/Cons Gold bids years ago.
Becoming serious again - I'm afraid I don't know the answres to your specific questions but I will try and find out. However, the OFT guidelines on debt colection are quite clear
Physical/psychological harassment
2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.
2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals
b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further borrowing or to extend their borrowing
...
f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so
Deceptive and/or unfair methods
2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.
2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
...
c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money advisers
d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives
If a reasonable person would consider that their behaviour constitutes harassment (I think I'm reasonable and I think it is - what do BRW and Fred think?) then they are comitting a (criminal) offence under ss1&2 of the Protection form harassment Act 1997 and s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.
I would write a stiff letter
1. pointing out that you are the person authorised to deal with this on your relatives' behalf
2. quoting the above extracts from the OFT guidance
3. pointing out their offences under the Acts quoted
4. tell them to behave or you will report them to the relevant authorities and/or take them to court.
I would also try and get power of atorney for the husband - it will make life easier (for him anyway )
Steven
Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here
Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial
My Wins
GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007 NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007 BrighthouseWon unconditionally August 2007 GoldfishWon unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra) Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008
Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.
Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.
Without a shadow of doubt, I think their behaviour constitutes harassment.
However, when it comes to the MBNA, my Politically in-correct opinion lies somewhere to the extream Right of Uncle Adolf and to the extreme Left of 2nd Cousin Stalin. I think it actually loops around both sides and meets at the back. Best described as a robust opinion that's in the Ghengis Khan level of hostility towards bankers.
Without a shadow of doubt, I think their behaviour constitutes harassment.
However, when it comes to the MBNA, my Politically in-correct opinion lies somewhere to the extream Right of Uncle Adolf and to the extreme Left of 2nd Cousin Stalin. I think it actually loops around both sides and meets at the back. Best described as a robust opinion that's in the Ghengis Khan level of hostility towards bankers.
So, perhaps I'm not the best person to ask!
Over to you Fred...
Cheers,
BRW
I think their behaviour in harassing an elderly and infirm person in this way is outrageous, let alone unreasonable. Isn't it said that a civilised society is judged on how we treat the elderly?
It has to be said that I am somewhat biased because I am not MBNA's biggest fan. Find me the man who is and you've found the man who we would all like to put up against a wall and shoot. Ask the question to almost anybody however and I think you'd get the same answer.
Could MBNA get charging order?
on behalf of an elderly relative who foolishly took out a loan with this outfit sometime in the 1990s, rolling over the loan several times until 2006, and had a faultless repayment record until entering a care home last Christmas when he had to stop repayment in order to make payments to the home. He has no assets. The house he lived in previously is owned by his wife (also in a care home). A relative (over 60) lives in this house and has power of attorney
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Originally Posted by Apoplectic
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