HFO & Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors

[Gadgetman]

Hi

I'm new to the forum and so I'm saying hello and hope that I can get some help. It seems really friendly on here and I need someone to be nice at the moment.

I was recently contacted by HFO claiming they had bought a debt from Morgan Stanley, which I owed, and they were now pursuing me for settlement. They said they would not be writing the debt off and as a homeowner would pursue me through the courts to get a charge against the property. The debt plus interest added now amounts to £18,046.68 and interest is being added at 12% per annum.

I didn't know about this forum then and so I contacted them to try and sort it out. They told me that if I could pay the principle sum immediately, £10,737.97, they would forgo the interest. Of course I couldn't pay so they offered to settle over 6 months. Again a sum I couldn't possibly afford. They put a financial advisor in touch with me to try and arrange a loan against the property to settle their debt, but my credit rating is so lousy that this didn't work either.

I've now been contacted by their solicitors who say they're going to pursue this through the courts and both myself and my wife are worried to death by this.

I've read some of the threads on this company and it seems they might just be trying it on, I'm not sure. They've not provided any paperwork to back up their claim to having purchased this debt and I think the original debt to Morgan Stanley may be about 6-8 years old.

Can anyone please tell me what to do next and say where I can find the references you might make. I'd be very grateful if you could also spell out what any acronyms are that you may use, I'm not very good at working them out for myself.

Here's hoping someone can help me get out of this mess.

[Steward]

You can use Google to search the web using these links below:-

[spamheed]

There are a number of factors to consider.

regardless of the age of the debt, if you have not paid , nor acknowledged in writing the debt for a period of six years, then the debt is statute barred and they cannot enforce it.

if the period is less than this, then they have a legal right to enforce the debt up to and including the court system. only if they have the original signed agreement (as signed by you when you took out the debt)

If they don't have this then you can legally tell them to whistle. although they will tell you allsorts to get you to pay, the general rule is: noagreement = no debt

Don't worry too much about the wording thwey put in their letters, it's all designed to scare you into paying. if you don't have £10k, then you can't pay £10k, it really is as simple as that and the courts (should it get that far) are very understanding in this area so the worst case is a CCJ paid at a rate you can reasonably afford

The rules of engagement are as follows:

1. Don't phone them, they tell lies and try to scare you into paying more than you can afford, don't let them speak to you on the phone, refuse to answer their security questions and tell them "in writing only"

2. You need to make them prove that they have a legal right to collect on the debt and that you are liable to pay (the agreement was executed correctly)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....templates.html
in the library you will find a CCA request letter (template N)
edit the letter accordingly and then send it to them with a £1 postal order to cover that statutory fee.

sign nothing and ensure you send the letter recorded (registered is better) retain copies of all communications and get proof of posting from post ofice online.

post any replies on here and we'll help with whatever they throw at you

Don't panic about this, if I showed up at your door with my hand out, demanding £50, what would you do? there is no difference with these "people"

[Gadgetman]

Thanks for that I'll look at the link straight away

[spamheed]

You need to get the CCA request in asap

[42man]

Top advice from Spam as usual....

I'd like to add that it is completely up against the OFT's rules for them to recommend a loan for you in any way shape or form...this is directly from the OFT's guidance on debt collection

Examples of Physical/Psychological Harrassment
2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

I would urge you to report them to the OFT and Trading Standards....

As Spam says get that CCA request off ASAP....!!

[Gadgetman]

Thanks for both of those.

HFO didn't recommend themselves that I take the loan, they recommended that I speak to "a financial advisor from our panel who may be able to help you meet your debts." Does this still qualify as harrasment?

[Gadgetman]

I've downloaded the letter and it'll be in tomorrows post Spam, thanks.

[sillygirl1]

Yes, it is harrassment, so report them, they are one of the harder companies as their 'agents' get a low salary and very high commission so it pressurises them into breaking rules to get a salary. You should see the job ads they put in the local paper and in Gumtree....

Report them to the OFT.

[Gadgetman]

Have sent off CCA today, copy attached to this post, thanks for the advice from everyone so far.

[spamheed]

You've left your personal details on the letter, take the letter off your post and remove anything that can identify you personally. then post it back on

You should only ever post anonamously.

[Gadgetman]

Thanks, what a dummy I am.

[Gadgetman]

I've allowed them 14 working days since I sent the letter discussed in previous messages and I've not heard a word from them. I guess it's naieve to assume that evything is now over, so what's my next step?

[42man]

You could send them this....bear in mind they might still produce one or produce something that may not be compliant...

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.
You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore


You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

These limits have expired.

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

And

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed Breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.


I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

[spamheed]

You need do nothing until they make demands for payment without having first produced the CCA.

Basically, at the moment they have failed to produce the CCA on time, this in itself would result in little more than a judge giving them more time to produce it.

Following the patterns from other DCA's behaviour - They can still:
a. produce the CCA
b. make a demand for payment - then you would need to start complaining
c. transfer/sell on the debt to another DCA - against the rules and cause for complaint
d. escalate the collection to their "in house?" legal team - again, against the rules and cause for complaint

so just wait and see what they do next

[bigandyuk1]

Wait and then Wait some more

Regards
Bigandy

[Gadgetman]

Thanks everyone for the very prompt replies, I'll wait...........

[Gadgetman]

Well... I've finally received the next piece in the chain. Another letter has arrived from Turnbull Rutherford representing HFO Services dated 14th July stating they are processing a claim against me and my property in Northampton county court unless I contact them immediately. Any suggestions as to what I should do now?

[42man]

Send them this...

Dear Sirs

I refer to your letter of 20th February 2008 which was received today.

Frankly, I am surprised of the need to advise a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement requests (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); dated XXXX 2008 for which I have proof of receipt . I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you of their non compliance. Your client had until XXXXX 2008 to comply with a legal request. They have now committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act.

Should your client persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by HFO under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

[Gadgetman]

Wow thanks.... that should stir things up a bit.

[DonkeyB]

Hi Gadgetman

Any updates?