Thread: UKPC charge for motorcycle parking

Hello. I have just joined and was very releived to discover this site and the postings on it. I don't know if anyone has had a similar experience to mine and can offer some advice?

I have been a motorcyclist/scooterist for 22 years and this is the first time I have encountered this. I visited B&Q in the Old Kent Road, London recently - something I've done many times before. As the car park was moderately busy, rather than take up a whole car parking space, out of consideration to the car drivers I put my scooter in a small triangle of empty space at the end of a row of bays. The space was simply a piece of empty ground at the end of a row and not a pathway or access route. I shopped for approx 10 mins and then left.

I subsequently received through the post a demand for £90 from UKPC for out of bay parking. I wrote back appealing this on the grounds that I had not seen any signs warning me that I was liable for a fine for parking in the one area in a free carpark that was only big enough for a motorcycle and that I'd chosen to park their out of courtesy to car drivers who actually need a full space to park. They wrote back the next day advising me that my appeal had been dismissed as there was adequate signage in the car park warning me of the charges. They then gave me 7 days to pay which is actually a reduction on the 14 days in the original letter!

I have been back to B&Q and checked - there are indeed signs. The reason I had not seen them was because they are approx 8ft off the ground (I am over 6ft tall and couldn't reach them with my hand). I would say that most would be unreadable to those shorter than myself or to those who are short sighted. Surely this is deliberate so as to place them outside of the line of view of those parking? I wonder if legally this does constitute 'adequate signage'? I am inclined to argue otherwise but wondered what others thought. (Also, I am not sure who decides what 'adequate' actually means in this instance!)

I am also doubtful if the company could argue that I knowingly entered into a contract with them - if it was knowing then surely my actions in incurring the fine would have been deliberate and I can't see how they could prove that.

I also checked and there was no sign at the entrance to the car park indicating that there were possible charges - it simply said 'customer car park'.

Unfortunately, I did find some signs at regular height inside the carpark but these were not in the line of vision when walking between the parking space and the store and had been obscured by parked cars.

Anyway, I am going to read the template letters and other information in the forum here and hopefully that will help. If something useful comes out of my efforts to challenge this charge then I will be sure to post it for the information of others.

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Ignore it. I had the same argument with the contractor acting for Morrisons - same idea, the ticket was for 'not being parked in a designated bay'. Strangely, I was parking my bike, and there ARE no bike designated parking spaces in this car park, so common sense dictates that you're not going to block a car from parking in a proper (designated) space. If it ever came to court (which it won't) that would be your defence. I wouldn't even write to them, wait until they contact you.

Thanks both for your help. Very good point on bays for motorcycles not being provided. In fact I parked in the spot I did because it often has motorcycles or bicycles in it and I considered it to be the bay for those vehicles.

Anyway, having read throught the various postings and draft letters I have decided to send a single reply which keeps my options open but also states that I will not be taking the matter further. In case it is of any use to anyone else it is this:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your letter of 11 April. I dispute your assertion that the signage in the Cantium Retail Park is sufficient and absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due from me.

If you wish to take this matter further I should be grateful if you would advise me of the statute(s) and/or judicial precedent that enables you to enforce this penalty against me. Unless you provide this information I will not be able to assist you further with this matter. Any correspondence received from companies acting on your behalf will be returned to them stating that this matter is disputed.

I note also that by not placing a ticket on my vehicle that you have breached the DVLA Code of Conduct on Private Parking and will therefore have obtained my details from the DVLA under false pretences.

Yours sincerely,

Whilst your letter will no doubt be ignored by these [problem]mers, the last paragraph is wrong. It is no longer a requirement of the DVLA code of conduct (cue laughter) for a ticket to be placed on the vehicle. This enables CCTV to be used.

Pat, Did the CoC have ANY relevance for private parking enforcement, at any stage?

Originally Posted by buzby

Pat, Did the CoC have ANY relevance for private parking enforcement, at any stage?

It was always honoured more in the breach, but it was changed by DVLA to accommodate CCTV.