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1st letter sent on11/02/08 telling them I believe PPI was mis-sold on the grounds that I was unaware the insurance was optional and that cheaper,more suitable alternatives were available. Asking for a refund and giving 14 days to reply.
Reply received on 24/02/08 looking in to complaint will respond by 11/03/08.
2nd letter sent on 27/02/08 prompting them, referring to 1st letter sent on 11/02/08 asking for refund of PPI premiums and giving another 14 days to respond or the complaint will be forwarded to the fos.
Firstly, don't speak to them, ever. Keep everything in Writing.
I think it would be worth spending another £1 now to send them a s77-79 Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA-74) request to obtain a properly executed true Copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement (CAA).
I do appreciate that you may've seen this via the S.A.R. (Subject access request) but asking for it via a s77-79 request will see what they think is the Agreement, and will also allow you to compare notes with what you received via the S.A.R., you never know, they may differ in a useful way!
The key here is to establish what Agreement, if any, exists. There may be no point Claiming back PPI if the whole alleged Debt is unenforceable. Once that has been established, you can perhaps come back to reclaim the PPI later. It's the order that you do things that can greatly affect the end result.
I'd establish the validity of the alleged Debt first, and then decide how you want to tackle them.
Claiming for the PPI first may not be wise, as it may be seen as accepting that the Debt exists. A better way may be find out your position on the alleged Debt first, and then come back to the PPI later, or not at all if the balance is better the other way around. The potential lack of an enforceable Agreement may give you all the negotiating power you need to seek a solution that suits you and not them.
You may also have Charges to add to the PPI refund Claim, so I'd take one step back, gather all the amunition, and then push ahead again when you know exactly where you stand on all fronts.
Sorry if you already know this, but you need to first check the CCA to see if it is enforceable, any Prescribed Terms, has it been Signed by everyone and in the right places, make sure they have not signed in your signature Box. Maybe await the s77-79 CCA-74 request and post the Agreement here for others to pick apart for you.
The fact that you may have a lack of a PPI Tick in the box for that, looks good already, but there could be a better way to handle them once you have all of the information to hand.
The S.A.R. is only one tool, add a s77-79 CCA-74 request and you then have the full set for a total extra outlay of just £1 (plus Postage Costs). Combined they should give you a better overview.
Remember that they have just Twelve Working Days to respond with your CAA, and then a Calendar Month thereafter. No show after 12 Working Days puts the alleged Account into Dispute as they are then in Default of your s77-79 CCA-74 request. If still no show after another Calendar Month, then they are in Criminal Default of that request. Get them to that stage and they are already fighting a rear-guard action.
Don't remind them of these Deadlines, as they are big enough, old enough and certainly ugly enough to know these already.
Stay polite, stay clinical and stay reasonable in all that you do with them. Never be tempted to Call them, use Letters only, as they remove their main tool to hassle you, and Letters also give you time to think.
Might also be worth being prepared for Harassment via Telephone, as they have a nasty habit of setting their Call Centres on to anyone that annoys them or gets close to revealing their true weaknesses.
Great advice from Banker or BRW as he is more widely known.
He forgot to mention this (and he will no doubt come back to me on this)
When you recieve mail keep all the envelopes that the correspondence arrives in as there can be disputes over the timing of mail as to when it was sent and when it was received plus the difference between the date of the letter and the date it was actually posted.
Basically CCA'd them in Jan 07, received an application form only, so unenforceable.
Made a claim, it was settled out of court, lump sum received, (charges, contractual interest and 8% on top, plus full removal of default) very happy with that.
Wasn't aware back then about PPI and I'm stuck as to next move now. I have made them aware that the agreement sent was an unenforceable agreement as it was application form and they sent the letter above in reply.
Very,very good sound advice, I have always kept envelopes with the letters, cos they almost always try, every trick in the book to wriggle out of things/ make things difficult.
He forgot to mention this (and he will no doubt come back to me on this)
Darn it, I keep saying how I must tell people how important this is (to keep the bankers Envelopes), and then keep forgetting to tell people.
But thankfully aa was there to cover for me, so many thanks to aa for that.
Back to Nick, I think you may well already have them on the run anyway, as you have the evidence that you didn't ask for the PPI. The fact that the Agreement was non-existant as Agreements go, as it was an Application Form etc, doesn't let them off the hook for having charged you for this nasty, pointless, useless and expensive PPI (that you never asked for).
I'm starting to run on the limits of what I can advise here, so hopefully someone with more experience of this will jump in to advise further on the chances of you being able to go back for a second helping of pudding.
banker (with face like a bulldog chewing a wasp): "More pudding Mr Nickt1976?"
Mr Nickt1976: "Yes please, I rather liked the first portion, and I shall be needing some more of that. I have yet to have ample sufficiency!"
In effect, you've made a Claim and Won that first battle, but neglected to ask for all that you were owed. It may come down to how that was finalised, and that's where you need better advice than I can now give.
Hopefully someone will jump in at this point...
...hello, knock, knock, anyone out there? Yoo-hoo...
Nope, well I'm sure they'll join in soon!
I'm off to my pit, so will catch up with this next pass.
I would have thought that their final response letter was quite standard.
Are you saying that on the application form(ie the ca) the ppc is stated as no sale. but they applied it anyway
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
The fact they have sent you a application form as a ca is in your favour:grin:
Do as BRW as stated send the official section 77/78 request under the cca 1974. This is a serious piece of legislation, Even the very water tight court case hinge on this piece of paper They must comply withing 12days + 2 postage, if they don't they are in default of the act, if another a following 30days they don't comply with a ca containing all prescribed terms, well all the better for you and your case of mis-selling
Your next move with this is write back to them telling them that you do not accept their final response, add the bit about the 77/78 request and that you will pursue this matter via the fos or court if necessary. Send a £1 postal order and keep everything. You can check on the royal mail website to make sure when they get it.
If the card was taken out before jan 05 you can ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate your complaint. If the card was taken out before this date you can issue a N1 at your local court for the refund of mis-sold PPI.
Remember also that they are a tricky bunch to deal with
If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW
I have already made it clear in my second letter back to them, asking for the refund, that they have only supplied me with an application form in response to my CCA request.
The card was taken out in 1998 and your not kidding tricky, more like sneaky and bare faced liars 'bunch' (so anyone dealing with these lot beware)
Did you mean (after) Jan 05 ask fos to investigate?
I am hopeless at responding back/ letter writing, could you point me in the direction of a response or suggest something please.
Do make sure you keep all Envelopes as well as the Letters.
The MBNA have a nasty habit (well, they have lots of nasty habits, this is just another one), and that habit is to back-date Letters.
For example, if your s77-79 CCA Request hits the 12 Working Day Deadline on, say, the 1st, don't be at all surprised to receive a Letter from them up to a week later (7th) but dated, say, the 25th of the Month before.
But, if you keep and examine the Envelope, it may have a Franking Mark or Postal Mark that may prove when the Letter was actually sent. In this example, probably sent on the 5th, so 5 days past the Deadline, and yet with a Letter they claim was dated up to 5 Days before the Deadline.
I have a building collection of Letters with Envelopes, and it's pretty clear that all of their Deadline compliance Letters are being back-dated to give the impression they responded in good time. This is clearly a tactic so that they can later impress a Judge that they complied well within a Deadline. In 6-12 Months time, they are hoping the Dates on their Letters are all that will count if/when this all goes to Court.
By comparison, their Threat-O-Matic Letters are Dated and Posted around the same time. I'm getting batches of Letters all Posted 1-2 Days before, but all the potentially important ones are Dated up to 10 Days before posting let alone delivery!
So, keep the Envelopes and clip them to the Letters, and sign and Date both when they arrive. This may be useful to you one day...especially as any Franking Date Marks will bear their own Royal Mail Franking Licence so can clearly be linked to both the Letter and to them.
This is the type of people you are up against. It's not just one person doing this, but several. I'm getting back-dated Letters from a growing band of them. It's clear this is an acceptable way of doing business within that organisation. Here we have a bank that feels it is quite alright to change the Date on a Letter, as needed, until it suits their purposes.
So, KEEP ALL ENVELOPES. Even with no Date, there may be some hidden Data in, say, the faint orange Royal Mail barcodes that look like a lot of vertical lines of varying height. I am trying to scan them to read what they say. If I crack that, I will advise what information is covered by these, as it may show the Date when the Envelope was handled by the Royal Mail sorting system.
MBNA-won't return PPI some help needed
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, I am hungry though for some more
Originally Posted by nickt1976
